Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone tell me,can I LEGALLY propogate and sell blackrat snake MORPHS in Pa.?Whitesides,lucys,ect.I know the law states that no native herp may be sold,but what about c.b.?

Nope, I am working on a Pa. factsheet for a group I belong to and asked the Fish and Boat commission, this is the response I got.....

" Though it is extremely rare for albino and other color morph snakes to occur in the wild, our regulations do not differentiate based on appearance. Therefore, you should document the origin of these snakes the same way that you would for any other. For species not taken from the wild but which may occur in PA, a dealer or purchaser would need to obtain and maintain the proper documentation to show that the origin of an animal was from a legal source and not taken from the wild. A bill of sale or receipt would be an example of the proper documentation"

Even with documentation, you are only allowed to own 2 of any native specie. The reason behind needing a reciept is that it's illegal to buy or sell native snakes in Pa. So, you would have to be able to prove you bought the snake legally.
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Ace

In fact what the fish commissions response says is that you are permitted to keep and breed indigenous reptiles as long as you have documentation that they were obtained from a legal source outside the state or were captive bred. In the first instance a reciept or bill of sale is sufficient. Captive bred specimens require breeding journals and photographs as documentation.

For some reason it is not permissable to breed specimens taken from the wild in PA and sell the offspring, but as long as the foundation stock was not taken from the wild in PA or taken illegally elsewhere there is no limit on captive breeding, sales, or numbers in possession provided proper documentation is available.

I forgot to mention that the possession limit of two refers to reptiles taken from the wild. It is permissable to take and keep two of each species from the wild without any documentation or license. If you have more than two you need documentation for those over the limit. Again it is not permissable to sell the offspring (or possess them for that matter) of the specimens taken from the wild.

Thats cool.What I was getting at is I have a pair of leucistic blackrats and a whitesided that I intend to breed and sell offspring from.I do have the bill of sales for all my animals.They are from Maryland and California originally.Thanks Fred!

Be careful,though, as you might get a diffent answer each time you talk to PA authorities. I was told this week by Boat and Fisheries that PA regs don't account for captive breeding - voice on the other end of the phone you're allowed two animals of a given native species, period. I had an adopter interested in an eastern box turtle, and she had heard that she needed a permit, so I did some checking myself.

Katrina

Thats the problam with Pa. fish and boat Commission.I have not been able to get a solid answer since I first contacted them in 1993.No matter who I talk to within the commision,I get contradicting answers.Seems the law makers don't even know the law!

That's why you contact as many different ones as you can. Record their names and what their responses were. Take the ones that suit you best. Keep them in a safe place. When they come to take your animals or some other nonsense, you will have written documents that show what you were told. It may not help you keep the animals, but it may help reduce or eliminate any fines put against you.

I have written confirmation that we can have two individuals of indigenous species without documentation and additional specimens with documentation in the form of bill of sale or journal records in PA. The information came snail mail and I have no scanner, but anyone who wants a copy can send a stamped sae to

Fred Bruckman
132 Labrador Dr.
Ligonier, PA 15658

As a reminder it is currently against the policy of PAFB to breed the two legally possessed wild caught individuals. Possession of those offspring is against policy. I believe that this violates the statute which prohibits only wild caught animals from being kept and sold. The PAFB has taken the position that the sperm and egg that produce the offspring are taken from the wild and are "parts" of the wild caught specimens. I do not believe this interpretation will stand and have been working to have it changed.

IMHO any conversation with any government official is useless unless it is backed up by written confirmation. The written confirmation then needs to be compared to what the statutes and regulations say. I have found two instances where the "policy" of an agency was in conflict with what the legislature has said. Agencies need to be called on these discrepancies. They seem to count on us just accepting what they say whether it agrees with actual law or not.