Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have recently caught a Timber Rattlesnake in my State of West Virginia. The snake is about 4 feet long, I've had it for 6 days now, and it is kept in a 20 gallon tank. I tried to feed the snake a small rat yesterday, the snake killed the mouse but wouldn't eat it, is this normal for a wild caught snake to not eat, and should I force feed it? Also, are there any vaccines I should give it? Thanks for any advice!
~Neil Pulice
PS Would it hurt to put a 5 foot Western Diamondback in with this snake, or should they be kept seperate?
HE246C7H5N3O6@aol.com

A 20 gallon tank is not a good place to keep a 4' timber rattlesnake. A well ventilated, secure locking enclosure with plenty of room including a hide box and a temperature gradient is suggested. Glass aquariums lack both ventilation and security. It is difficult to find a locking lid that is truly escape proof, ad top-only ventilation is not always sufficient.

Mixing species can lead to problems as well, especially if you are already crowding the first animal in too small a cage. Some of the problems you can run into are parasite and disease transmission, added stress on the animals and of course the possibility that one or both snakes will end up dead from an attempt to kill or eat one another. C. atrox can be quite snappish and have been known to take bites out of cagemates especially when they are striking out blindly at any motion because they are stressed by the approach of a keeper.

There are a lot of reasons for inappetance. Improper temperature gradient, too much stress, no hide box or shelter in the cage, too small a cage, internal or external parasites, illness and injury are among the possible causes.

You can start by putting the animal in an appropriate cage with a good temperature gradient, with one end being a nice warm basking zone (85F or so during the day) and the other end a nice cool dark hiding place at least 5 to 10 degrees cooler. Drop the temps at night to 76-78F. Let the animal de-stress in here for a week then try again with a small, barely fuzzy rat pup. Temperature and a secure hiding spot are two of the most important factors in a successful adjustment to feeding in captivity.

Next step is a fecal exam. WC horridus are very likely to have parasites. You need to identify the parasites and give appropriate treatment. Alternatively if you have some fecal exams from animals from the same locality, shotgun the appropriate antiparasiticals on the assumption that your animal has the usual load of parasites found in that geographic area.

Not all vets will treat venomous snakes, but I haven't found one yet that will refuse to do a fecal exam on fresh poop if you leave the snake at home.

Good luck,

TT

From your post, it sounds as if you're relatively new to hot snakes, so I'll try to help, though there are more knowledgable folks here than myself.

My experience with freshly caught c. horridus was that they needed the following items ...

One thig I need to say right off ...make sure he has adequate housing ... I absolutely HATE seeing large rattlers in a twenty-gallon aquarium, I don't care what anyone says. Many times, wild-caught venomous snakes need room and time to get settled in.

1. Check scales (especially underbelly) closely with light and magnifying glass to see if ticks or mites are present. Please note, if you don't have much experience pinning and necking large rattlers, get advice from someone who does. It's very easy to injure the snake. Even if you don't see ticks or mites, it might be a good idea to put a MINUTE (read very small) dusting of Sevin Dust (from hardware store) in the bottom of the cage under whatever substrate you use. Oh ... make sure the snake ain't in the cage when you do this.

2. While you've got him or her 'necked' check the snake (especially the 'business ends') for mouth rot, tumors, injuries, open sores, anything sticking out of it's butt (don't DO anything if something's sticking out, take it to a herp vet because it could have worms, prolapsed penisis or sump'n else). If you see open sore that aren't too bad/big regular applications of hydrogen peroxide with a q-tip will usually clear it up.

3. Get a stool sample to a vet to check for parasites ASIP (as soon as it poops).

4. Make sure the temperatures are correct in the cage. Take the temp AT THE SNAKES LEVEL IN THE CAGE, not at the top of the cage ... the snake ain't up there unless he's a climbing horridus (c. horridus climbus). Ensure that there are warmer and cooler spots in the cage so he can bask or cool down if he wants, but make sure the warm and cool areas are still within the optimum range for the snake.

5. Make sure he has a hiding place in the cage (a box, an overturned flowerpot or bucket with a hole in it, etc.) and isn't being messed with much, if at all. He's scared and he needs some space to calm down. Snakes are well-known for needing their 'quiet time'.

6. Also make sure he has periods of light and dark. You wouldn't want to be under a spotlight all the time either.

7. Make sure he is well-hydrated. I always likes a relatively shallow plant pot bottom. Those terra cotta thingees that go under a pot for excess water to run into. They are more shallow than most dog dishes and you can get them pretty wide, too. Make sure the water is kept clean. I always soaked my new catches in the tub (I covered all the drains and spouts) or in a large aquarium to ensure thay are well hydrated and it helped remove any nasties that might be clinging. Make sure the water is about 65-75 degrees and that there's no soap scum in the tub or aquarium you use. Disinfect whatever you put him in.

If all this has been done ... give the guy a week or two to calm down and acclimate to his new home. Give him some room and don't mess with him all the time. Just come in once per day (quietly) to check on him (remember you need his poop) and check his water and to cycle his light. Make sure he is in a low-traffic area so he isn't subject to movement and noise all the time. DO NOT FORCE FEED HIM yet ... give him some time with the previous conditions met first.

After two weeks of relative quiet time, give him a small, live mouse and sit very quietly and far away and watch to ensure the mouse doesn't try to bite on the snake if not taken. Give him an hour (you can read a book) or so and see if he feeds. If he kills, it VERY important that NO ONE is moving around at all in the room. Rattlers can be easily spooked (though some eat like PIGS from day one).

DON'T PUT ANOTHER SNAKE IN WITH HIM if he is already a trouble feeder. Just look after this guy for while and get him squared away before taking on another charge.

Following the previous items ... I have NEVER had a WC rattler not eventually feed. Some are just easily 'put off'.

Good luck!

Phil Minh Thong Holbrook

Mr. West Virginia Ghetto Hick:

Was that a fake post?

Thanks for all the help guys!

"Mr. West Virginia Ghetto Hick:
Was that a fake post?" No it was not a fack post, I just used the first name that I thought of.

You're pretty talented, I don't think I could get a 4 foot rattler to fit into a 20 gallon at all. Where would you put the water dish?

I believe you care about your new fanged friend, or you wouldn't have posted. So please get a MUCH bigger home for her or let her go exactly where you caught her (her den was probably nearby) so she can make some little Canebrakes. Keeping a timber rattler that size in such a small enclosure is cruel and she is not going to feed in there. She only killed the mouse because she needed the room.

BTW ... I'm jealous that you can keep Canebrakes and I can't, due to the Eco-Gestapo in Raleigh. They are, in my humble opinion, the most beautiful venomous snake in North America.

Phil Holbrook
Greensboro, NC

"You're pretty talented, I don't think I could get a 4 foot rattler to fit into a 20 gallon at all. Where would you put the water dish?" Why are you such a smart ass?

Yes, I like my little pet, I am planning on building a cage 4' long by 2' tall by 2' wide. The cage will be split in two parts, one part will have the heat rock, water dich, and heat lamp mounted on top, while the other half will have a hole for it to crawl through where there will be no light or heat rock, so it may go to a cool dark place if it wants. Would this be ideal, if not what would be nice set-up for it? This is my first hot, although I have several non-venomous snakes as well.
you may see a picture of my rattlesnake at www.geocities.com/explosives_page/rattlesnake.html my scanner sucks so the picture is dark and blurry but you can still see the snake.

The reason some folks might respond in a less than polite fashion is probably because we can get upset and annoyed when we hear that snakes are being mistreated or abused. Keeping a 4' rattlesnake in a 20 gallon aquarium is definitely mistreatment; putting an atrox in there as well would qualify as abuse. Letting the animal go anywhere other than its capture site is also an irresponsible thing to do and would probably result in its death. Sorry if those statements offend you, but they are simple truths.

I know you don't mean to hurt the snake, and you are posting here because you want to learn how to keep it properly without hurting it. I could wish that people would learn these things before they took responsibility for the animals, but better now than never.

Glad to hear you have plans for a better cage. Keep us posted on how the critter is doing, and PLEASE get a fecal exam and antiparasitical medication ASAP. Wild caught horridus are generally chock full of parasites and you really need to address this issue if you want a long term healthy captive.

Good luck,

TT

I think you will all be glad to hear the snake is now in a 5' long X 2' tall X 2.5' wide cage. One side with light and heat, the other side, dark and cool. I have also found a vet that will take a look at my snake. Thanks for the help everyone!