Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a "High White" albino nelson. Is this a trait that is affected by incubation temps or is this something that can be bred for?

Is anyone out there working on a high white albino nelson project?

The genetic variability is what keeps me(and lots of others)interested in milks to begin with.With 3 different colors there are alot more combinations(see chances for anomalies)than there are for any 2-toned snake.While there has been anecdotal notes on incubation temps nothing has been confirmed.There are many others working on the albino striped nelsoni project that could add better to the discussion if they want to come out of hiding...I mean we know its there,may as well talk about it,lol.Jeff

If you looked at the original normal nelsoni stock in the USA prior to the amel popping up, you would see animals with lots and lots of black in many cases. Perhaps it was a locality thing? Don't know myself (and not all were like that). As amels, these would look like your picture I would think.

I would say your pic is what an amel version of classic nelsoni would look like. So why don't more look like yours? Maybe along with the original albinos there were pattern abberancies passed on (i.e. bullseye)? But maybe, just maybe, in the early days, anything that looked remotely like nelsoni was used in breeding.. like Sinaloans.. so that today's nelsoni are so high-red? Just throwing out conspiracy theory here. I really do not know.

actually, most -- "classic" -- nelsoni have wide red rings about as wide as the combined triad adjoining them. Nelsoni don't usually have a lot of crossovers, the way mountain kings do--almost characteristically so, in the "classic" wild mountain king. But a few nelsoni do have somecrossovers (I don't remember ever seeing one with as many as the albino in the pic has though). The key to remember is that BLACK crossovers are WHITE crossovers on amels, or albinos: instead of black obscuring the red, white does. So the amel in the pic simply has a lot of crossovers.

That makes it unusual, and interesting. The triangles laterally are nice.

It would be real interesting to see pix of the parents and of siblings to this snake. I don't think the original poster here had any doubts of the purity of the animal. In a vacuum--i.e., without that assurance--it would be reasonable to wonder whether this animal was produced from hybrids from an albino nelsoni (or....) x a mtn king, which would be another explanation for the introduction of crossovers.

But lastly, the question of striped nelsoni was raised. I prdouced some "striped-aberrant" nelsoni for a few years, ending a couple years ago (sold the project). I preferred adding "aberrant" because none were perfectly striped, but many had 50% or more of body length striped, and on others a sort of dot-and-dash pattern created a striped effect, like the snake in the picture. An amel version of one of these animals would not look like the albino posted in this thread, of course. But with the striped-aberrant changes occurring in what were from all accounts pure nelsoni, it's reasonable to expect other pattern aberrancies--like the crossovers--too.

peace
terry

The high white albino in the original picture was purchased from a very reputable breeder. All the siblings and parents were "normal" pattern.

That is the problem with all these crosses and hybrids!!!! Something cool comes along and the first reaction is "that's a cross, or that's a hybrid".

There are MANY people breeding cool nelson and sinaloan milks. Lets here from some of you guys out there!!

I never said yours was a cross. Go look at Applegate Reptiles' website and look at the pic of his normal nelsoni. They (as normals) have lots of black. An amel of one of those would look like your snake. I said, yours looks like what a classic nelsoni amel would look like in many cases.

>>That is the problem with all these crosses and hybrids!!!! Something cool comes along and the first reaction is "that's a cross, or that's a hybrid".

I agree with you 110%. I know i annoy people sometimes by mentioning the shortcomings of hybrids, but they're real, and it does harm the rest of the herper community.

peace
terry

I remember seeing nelsoni in collections 20 years ago.. and many specimens had black crossovers alot like those on Applegate Reptiles' website. Nowadays, it is rare. I guess instead of conspiracy, it is more selective breeding of the highest-red amels as possible.
-----
Mark

Here is a neat side view.

I have seen snakes called "Cosala Stock Sinaloans" I believe they had a lot of crossover.