Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking of breeding my male (a tangerine poss. het rainwater albino) with one of my females (appears to be a pastel, and she is het for jungle). We are new to breeding, and im not so sure what kind of babies we will produce. I dont know how to do the "genetics calculations." If anyone could help that would be great.
Thanks

You'll probably get mostly normals. Some chance of being het for rainwater albino (assuming the father is). You may get some tangs and pastels...but the color will probably range mostly around normal. You also may get a couple with slight abberancies on their tails if they happen to get a jungle gene from mom.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

I am thinking of breeding my male (a tangerine poss. het rainwater albino) with one of my females (appears to be a pastel, and she is het for jungle). We are new to breeding, and im not so sure what kind of babies we will produce."

Hi

There are only a few traits that are recessive:

The three albinos - Tremper, Rainwater, Bell
Blizzard
Patternless
Tremper Giant

From everything I have read Jungle is not a recessive trait it is a line bred trait so you really cannot have a het for jungle.

tangerine poss. het rainwater albino x pastel

Would produce
50% het for rainwater albino
50% tangerine/jungle/pastel

So you would not have animals that are rainwater in appearance until you cross two het for rainwaters which would produce
25% tangerine/jungle/pastel
50% het for rainwater
25% rainwater albino

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Terry
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Terry Brashear
1.0.0 High Yellow
0.1.0 Lavender
0.1.0 Hypo Carrot-tail
2.5.0 "Tigers" Designer
1.1.0 Tangerine
12 eggs incubating
http://www.naturepixels.com

thanks for the info.

Another question:

what is line breed?

line-bred means that there are more than one genes contributing to a trait, and the traits have been exploited by breeding related animals together to express more genes and produce the desired appearance.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

From everything I have read Jungle is not a recessive trait it is a line bred trait so you really cannot have a het for jungle.

- jungle is in fact believed to be a recessive trait...however it there may not be complete dominance, and some hets will show jungle-like traits.

tangerine poss. het rainwater albino x pastel

Would produce
50% het for rainwater albino
50% tangerine/jungle/pastel

So you would not have animals that are rainwater in appearance until you cross two het for rainwaters which would produce
25% tangerine/jungle/pastel
50% het for rainwater
25% rainwater albino

-This would only be the outcome if the male is in fact het for rainwater albino...which won't be proven easily unless he's bred to a rainwater female. The offspring may range in color from pastel to tangerine, however most will probably be normal. Some may also be het for jungle and in that case may or may not have some jungle-like traits to them.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

we also have a tangerine het for rainwater albino female, and what appears to be a normal female. The other female, spoken of earlier, I think is a pastel female, she is very light in color with regular spotting, suppossedly het for jungle (we just picked her up at the white plains expo -- so it will be a while until she is bred, for quarantine purposes) and the male, as mentioned before, is a tangerine poss. het rainwater albino.
The male and the tang. fem and the normal female are all currently living together.

well you ought to get some nice tangs out of the male and the tang het albino female...you should also be able to find out if he is het for albino. If he is, then about 1/4 of the offspring from that pair should be albino...and they ought to be tang as well!
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

"jungle is in fact believed to be a recessive trait...however it there may not be complete dominance, and some hets will show jungle-like traits."

Steve Sykes was recommended as a contact to me by Marcia of Golden Gate Geckos as the person most knowledgable about Leopard Gecko genetics. I have exchanged email with him regarding this and he states that jungle has not been proven as a recessive trait. Where did you get you information that it is a recessive trait? If it is not completely dominant then by default it is recessive.

"This would only be the outcome if the male is in fact het for rainwater albino...which won't be proven easily unless he's bred to a rainwater female. The offspring may range in color from pastel to tangerine, however most will probably be normal. Some may also be het for jungle and in that case may or may not have some jungle-like traits to them."

In my example I used I gave them the benefit of the doubt that the animal was in fact het. Of course the best way would be to breed it to a phenotypical rainwater to see what happens, but even then you would still get some animals that do not show rainwater, but are het. How can a line bred trait such as tangerine suddenly produce normal? If you breed a high yellow to a tangerine - both line bred traits you would end up with animals not as brilliantly colored, but definitely not normals.

We discussed this on FC - the people in the discussion mostly have been breeders for years(Kelli of HISS, Robin Struck, Marcia McGuiness, etc) - and there was general consensus that the traits within leopard geckos that are ture recessives are:

The three albinos - Tremper, Rainwater, Bell
Blizzard
Patternless
Tremper Giant

Which is in line with Steve Sykes line of thinking.

The one trait that is unclear and is being worked on by a few people is stripe.

I'm not attacking you in posting here, I have a background in biology, and specifically mitochondrial DNA within bird species so this is a subject I really enjoy.

Regards,

Terry
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Terry Brashear
1.0.0 High Yellow
0.1.0 Lavender
0.1.0 Hypo Carrot-tail
2.5.0 "Tigers" Designer
1.1.0 Tangerine
12 eggs incubating
http://www.naturepixels.com

I find this subject to be quite fascinating!!! There does indeed appear to be a "dominant" as well as a separate "recessive" stripe gene, but I cannot be certain if this also applies to jungles. We need to consider more studies to prove the various theories, but as it now stands.. jungle and stripe are considered by most as a line-bred trait. This could be easily proven by the assumption that there could be jungle and/or striped hets.

My jungle and striped groups appear to be 'dominant', because when I breed jungle to high-yellow, I do get jungles.. or at least some form of abberancy.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

but it only appears to be in certain lines. The most well known line would be from Ron Tremper. The line originated from a Jungle, which also spawned the striped gene. Jungle is dominant over stripe, why and how I don't now. Jungle to Jungle breedings (using tremper's line) will result in jungles. And stripe to stripe breedings (again using Tremper's line) will produce stripes.

I have bred a couple of female stripes into my Rainwater albino line and have, so far, only gotten stripes, normals, and albinos out of the crosses, but no striped albinos. I also did this when I had tremper double hets at one point, but it was with the jungle gene. I produced my own double hets by breeding a normal male Tremper albino to a tremper jungle. That initial cross yielded 5 jungles het for albino and 4 normals (double hets). I only bred the double hets and I got jungles, normals, and albinos out of the cross, but no jungle albinos.

Chris

I have a fully striped male (non-albino) that produces striped babies even with jungle females, and a classic jungle male that produces all abberant babies with a pretty good percentage of jungles when bred to a normal, high-yellow female...
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

I have a fully striped male (non-albino) that produces striped babies even with jungle females, and a classic jungle male that produces all abberant babies with a pretty good percentage of jungles when bred to a normal, high-yellow female...

Isn't that describing things not fully recessive??...producing stripes from a jungle/stripe cross would suggest some level of dominance in the stripe gene...not recessiveness...as would producing abberants and jungles when crossing a jungle with a normal...
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

Exactly my thoughts...
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

oops...I thought you had titled your post jungle and stripe are fully recessive...I thought Chris had a different title...I was confused!...lol
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

I just took a look at your websit on morphs and you have a disclaimer:

"There is some controversy over the actual genetics of jungles, stripes, and reverse stripes"

Which I think is something we agree on even though in your previous message you stated:

"jungle is in fact believed to be a recessive trait"

One thing for certain is that Leopard Gecko Genetics are in their infancy and there are a lot of unknows.

Regards,

Terry
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Terry Brashear
1.0.0 High Yellow
0.1.0 Lavender
0.1.0 Hypo Carrot-tail
2.5.0 "Tigers" Designer
1.1.0 Tangerine
12 eggs incubating
http://www.naturepixels.com

The Tangerine are not ressivce genes and all offspring will be 50% double possbile het for jungle Rainwater Albino. It is depends on jungle line you are using because some are just a slective bred and some are Ressivce. If it is just a slective line of jungle, you will get all 50% het for Rainwater Albino.
You might will get some nice Hi Yellow. My pastel line seems to be Domiant but I am testing out it.
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Preston Berry
www.freewebs.com/coolgeckoUnder Construction
restonberry@austin.rr.com" target="_blank">Prestonberry@austin.rr.com

woah!...lol BeakGeek...I've heard from several reputable folks Chris for example and I think Robin...that jungle is simple recessive. Before that I thought it was linebred...of course now it appears a lot more complicated...lol I happen to love genetics and am about finished with a course on it (I'm a sophomore pre-vet major) so its all still very fresh in my mind. I'm totally aware that crossing a het with a homozygous recessive will give you some hets...I had just pointed out that the male was only possibly het because it seemed as though you had missed that when you posted your response.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.