Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Perhaps there should be a set of FAQS and reasoned answers to help the dragons whose new owners seek advice here. From what I see, as a newcomer, there are some very experienced people here but I suppose, since the same questions are asked time after time, answers are not always complete; nor do they contain reasons for why this particular answer is supplied. For instance, when the subject of lettuce is raised, the person might be tole that iceberg lettuce is bad for their dragon. This is simply not true. The fact is, this particular type of lettuce is mostly water and not very nutritious, but it is not an evil substance. There are lots of heated opinions on food, on substrate, on UV lighting, but the questions are so common (yet important) that the reasoning gets left out because it is simply to much work to type out all that information each time.
I asked a question about heat some days ago. It is an important subject, for lizards. I was told that lizards need overhead heat, and not to use belly heat of the type supplied in racks. I asked why, and have not received an answer. I know y'all must know, and I would like to know also.
The problem is that incomplete answers may lead to a situation where the learner simply dismisses those answers, or stops asking questions, and our dragons deserve better. With all the talent we have here, is it possible to get a complete FAQ up and running?

You have some valid points. Hope this covers them all

While I would love to get answers about a lot of things that we take for granted, apparently nobody has them. It is just DONE THAT WAY. Why is the sky blue and the grass green, why are the mountains so high and the water so deep? Sometimes there are scientific reasons sometimes it's a matter of the collective experience. Why do babies need to be 6 weeks or 6 inches to sell? Who made up that rule? Why do you never house 2 males together, c'mon NEVER?
Sorry if your question did not get answered but I don't know why. Maybe because the sun is in the sky so they were designed to gauge heat from above? It is good to keep asking why we do things the way we do however. It's the only way we can learn and possibly change for the better.

As far as a FAQ goes, without getting into a big pile of poo, apparently it is against TOS. (Write me off list for more info)

Remember the KISS principal. When I answer a question I try to keep it simple so as not to confuse people. I also keep it short since many of the topics can be easily researched on the net and someone who wants all the knowledge can obtain it easily. (not to mention that there are a lot of different opinions) I would have to say, it is my experience most people want all the answers quick and easy and not all the reasons why (glad you are different).

BTW iceberg lettuce is BAD and should be put in jail and rehabilitated.

I hope you keep asking questions. Good luck with your BDs.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

that rocks (I'm assuming "racks" was a typo...if not, my apologies) get too hot for a beardie's belly and can burn them!

Maybe they're designed to heat an area and not an animal, but they always show a beardie laying on them on the packaging.

my understanding is that in the wild beardies have adapted to thermoregulating f/ the upper 1/2 of there body, that is one of the main functions of their "3rd eye". They don't understand that what they are laying on is too hot for them. Ex: In the wild if they are laying on a rock that is too hot, there instincts have been set up to realize not the rock but that the sun above shining on a nice 120 deg. day is too hot and they move to the shade. Now I could be wrong but this is my understanding of it.

Now THAT is a REALLY good answer and I thank you for it!
BTW above was no typo (see previous post) I have a set of racks which are shelves made with built in heat tape, plastic tubs fit into the shelves so closely that the snakes cannot escape as the top of the tub is the next shelf (each tub has air holes) they are commonly use to house small or hatchling snakes. These are very widely used so I am surmising that belly heat only is OK for snakes but not lizards?

supplemented belly heat isn't the problem, it is when there only heat source is a hot rock. I think with lizards some belly heat can be fine (heat tape on a rheostat), but lizards are much more sensitive to the need for light and overhead heat.

I wouldnt say LIZARDS need overhead heat because terrestial nighttime geckos like belly heat ie:Leopard Geckos.
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My Leo's
1.0.0 Normal
0.1.0 Tremper Albino
My Beardie
0.0.1 Red x Gold

>>I wouldnt say LIZARDS need overhead heat because terrestial nighttime geckos like belly heat ie:Leopard Geckos.
>>-----
>>My Leo's
>>1.0.0 Normal
>>0.1.0 Tremper Albino
>> My Beardie
>>0.0.1 Red x Gold

It would actually be a little more than just that. BDs react like other lizards to heat, if it's too hot they run from it.

The real problem with heat rocks is that they heat up SLOWLY, compared to overhead heating. Look at it like this:

If you boil a pot of water and toss a frog into it (my apologies to all those frog owners out there for this line of thinking...), the frog will IMMEDIATELY try to get out any way it can.

But...

If you toss a frog in a cool pot of water and slowly bring it to a boil, the frog will not have enough presence of mind to escape because it won't realize the water is too hot until it's too late.

Same as heat rocks. Most of the time the beardie will fall asleep on a warm rock, then get burned because the temp on the rock is hotter than it was when they first got on it. Or, even worse, the heat rock gets left on when the lights are turned off, then in the morning the lights cut back on again, REALLY overheating the beardie.

That's why for most novices the best thing to do is avoid heat rocks completely. Yes, a warm spot will aid a beardie's digestion, but there are better ways to do that, such as using basking spots that hold in the heat better, like concrete slabs and such. The beardie gets the benefit of the warm belly, and if it's too hot he won't get near it.
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Dl

The other way to handle heat rocks is to measure its temp in an environment similar to what the beardie lives in, and so long as the surface temp doesn't EVER get higher than 90 deg., everything should be fine. The same goes for under-the-tank heaters. If the surface AND ambient temp does not go higher than the normal tolerance levels for beardies, then everything's okay. But if you use under-tank heaters be sure it doesn't run the entire length of the tank. Beardies still need to thermoregulate.
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Dl

Beardies can't guage belly heat that's why. I agree with Bennett, I try to keep things simple as to not scare/confuse people. The FAQ is a good idea in theory but it's against the TOS. Besides who would write it, my answers could/would be different from the next persons, so much of this is a matter of personal and collective experience that differs widely among each of us.

Sean
Heart Mountain Herps

I think it insults the intelligence of your readers to assume that a complete answer will either scare or confuse them. They posted here in the first place because they want to know. A skilful explanation will make sure the information is delivered in a way not to confuse, but it is time consuming which was my point for a FAQ; if it is against the rules perhaps it could be posted offsite and linked.

I'm not trying to insult anybodys intelligence. So many times there are multiple things to consider that all tie in to one another and if you tried to answer as completely as you say it would turn into a book. I don't think people necessarily want to read a books worth of explanation to a simple question. If they do they can ask for clarrification and if I (or anyone else here) know the reasoning behind it we try to give it to them, sometimes the reasoning is simply "because that's the way it is". There are tons of FAQs/caresheets offsite, but like I said before different people have wrote them and they all say something a little different. You can't have 1 master FAQ that is the end all and be all law of bearded dragons because everyone does things a little different, you have to filter through it all and make up your own mind as to what suits you and your dragons situation.

Sean
Heart Mountain Herps

I didn't see anything in the TOS that said we can't have a FAQ. Most of the language is written towards promoting another site, which is a violation. Perhaps is could be hosted by kingsnake. The best way I have seen to share info in FAQ form has been with Wiki, that way everyone can share their ideas on the same page in their own words without it turning into a thread. You also have the ability to not allow someone to edit a page, since everything is tracked, and this may stop some of the bickering that goes on. Only some versions of Wiki support this. As a new owner I would like to see a FAQ since I find most of the care sheets don't provide enough information and these threads are very difficult to search through.
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0.1.0 Pony "Wee Winsome Whinny"
1.0.0 Weimaraner "Jasper"
1.0.0 Mini Dachshound "Simpson"
0.1.0 Rock Pebler "Tweety"
0.0.6 Hermit Crabs
0.0.2 Gold Fish
1.0.0 Hopefully soon Beardie

Here's the problem with Iceberg lettuce:
Not only does it have low nutritional value, the high water content can and will cause diarrhea. Diarrhea can cause dehydration.
Severe dehydration can affect vital organs like the kidneys, brain, and heart.

So..It is pretty evil.
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www.classylizard.com

If someone has a place to host a site I would be willing to volunteer some time to help put together some Wiki pages. Wiki pages are great for sharing information and are fully searchable. Anyone can edit the page and add information, however this is fully tracked so "we" will know who is making what changes. To see the power of wiki check out www.wikipedia.com, it is an encyclopedia built using wiki.

Wiki is free software too!!
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0.1.0 Pony "Wee Winsome Whinny"
1.0.0 Weimaraner "Jasper"
1.0.0 Mini Dachshound "Simpson"
0.1.0 Rock Pebler "Tweety"
0.0.6 Hermit Crabs
0.0.2 Gold Fish
1.0.0 Hopefully soon Beardie

A few months back. Supposedly, posters were to send in their tips and hints. I guess it never got off the ground. The only one I know of at this point is on another site (that I don't think I'm supposed to mention).

Let's just say if you go to google and put in "bearded dragon", it's the first site on the list.
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www.classylizard.com

I remember the thread. The nice thing about Wiki is that anyone can edit any page so you don't need to send anything to anyone. Each of us moderates it and can put additional information as we see fit. It is not a BB and fully tracks every change made to a page,so we all know who is doing what. I also like the idea of doing searches, the major problem of this site is I get everything from every board. I only care about BD and what's on this board. I don't need all the additional information.
Anyway, if someone has a place to host it I'll help set it up. It can run under Linux or Windows. There are some versions of Wiki that allow the host to password protect the edit of pages but that defeats the whole concept behind Wiki.
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0.1.0 Pony "Wee Winsome Whinny"
1.0.0 Weimaraner "Jasper"
1.0.0 Mini Dachshound "Simpson"
0.1.0 Rock Pebler "Tweety"
0.0.6 Hermit Crabs
0.0.2 Gold Fish
1.0.0 Hopefully soon Beardie

If you open a post and click on "reply" you will notice there is a search option at the top. Click on that search option and it will give you the ability search only the BD forum.
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Rob Talkington

My opinion is this..if you want answers, research. I wanted answers, so I went online, and did a search on bearded dragons. I read pretty much every care sheet I could. Then, I took all that information, and formed my own opinions on caring for my dragons. When I didnt understand why something was the way it was, like heat on their bellies, I researched that, too. I use this forum for ideas and opinions, but ultimately, what I know comes from what I have researched. If someone tells you lettuce is bad, but doesnt tell you why, you research. If you want to know more than what you are told, research. You cant rely on others in a forum to give you all your info. Its like having a kid...everyone can tell you how to raise your child, but, ultimately, its up to you and how you choose to raise the kid. Just my opinion, and the people in this forum were here for me and provided me with just the amount of information I needed when my dragon was sick, and now I have a perfectly healthy dragon, because I took their advice and then did my part.
*shrug* just my opnion...

hi there..i agree 100%..i actually posted a very similar post recently..i must admit tho it must be boring for them answering same questions...and if you just do a search and read web pages you get wrong information like i did..i read on several pages you can keep 2 beardys together..i posted on here and never got a reply..so went and bought 2...it would be nice if a group of experienced keepers got together and made a web page..on all there experiences..they could vote on certain issues..about heating basking temps etc and the majority would then be put on website..unfortunatly ive just found web page after webpage that contradict themselfs....then ive posted on here and waited 24 hours for a reply..and that actually put me back 24 hours building viv etc...thats not anybodys fault..but i had read so many diffrent things i was confused..anyway maybe one day we will get a web page written by a bunch of keepers and not just one..but this forum is good,and they must get sick of typing same stuff and explaining it