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Hi,
I changed my mali uro's substrate today... I mixed topsoil and play sand. He def. does not like it. I built caves out of a habba hut and his cork board cave... When I introduced hit to it, all he wanted to do was get off the dirt... He climbed the walls and then went into the cave on the cool side of the tank... Granted, I had him away from his heat source for about 10 mins while I changed the substrate... He was cold... But did not stay under his basking light... Now he's in the cool side's cave and I can't get him out. I tried digging him out but he puffed up and basically told me to leave him alone. I am worried he is cold. He is used to having 90 degree temps and now his cave is 70! His basking area is 88 degrees. Is this because of the topsoil? His basking area always got up to 110-120. His cave on the warm side of the tank is 76 degrees. I have a heat pad under the tank there... Will it get warmer? Should I dig him out? Do I have to worry about the humidity? It's at 70%. Please give me some advice. I am really worried that he hates his new home! I don't want to make him sick either. Please help!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

Ok..first of all, 70 degrees at night will not kill your uro. The temps should drop to that anyhow during the nights. As far as during the day, you may need to get yourself a much higher wattage bulb to get the basking temps back up to where they need to be (100 hot end..120 basking...80 cool end).

Why is your uro hiding?? Because you just changed his cage! Every time you change it around it is a totally new place to them so they hide and may take time to acclimate all over again. Some can handle the change...most cannot. However, he will come around I would think once you get the temps back up (and soon!)

Hope this helps to ease your mind a bit
Maybe go back to your old setup if you feel he does not like it.

Good luck!
Renee

OMG Renee! I was so worried! Thank you for replying! Under "ground" where he is right now is low 70's. The temp up and out of his cave on the cool side of the tank is 81.

I am leaving the lights on to see where they get up to... The basking area is now 93. Not hot enough... I am going to go out and get a hight wattage bulb... Maybe try a different bulb like a flood bulb... I am hoping that his basking area gets warmer.

It's funny that you said that he needs to acclimate. When I bought him, he was living in this tiny tank with another uro. Not a very nice set up (as I know now). I brought him home and set up his tank using calci-sand... I put him in and he didn't even hide! LOVED IT! So that is why I kind of freaked that he hates his new setup.

I have been reading what people have been posting about sand substrates and the soil mixture. I noticed that my uro continuously dug and cleared the sand away... I thought that maybe what he really wanted was something to dig down into...

You did put my mind to ease Renee and I thank you! I didn't know if I should dig him out or what. I'm going to let him be. Hopefully he will come out when he gets too cold. And like you said, if he doesn't adjust well I can always go back (I have a spare bag of playsand in the garage!).

Thanks again!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

respiratory will set in fast. If I were you I'd take out the soil for now and go back to a dry substrate until you get the kinks worked out. Maybe the soil is cold just from being recently put in, but if it doesn't get up there in temps soon, and your uro doesn't turn into its normal self again, don't waste your time remedying the situation.

Humidity has always been a concern for desert species, though many have found that uros like to retreat to humid areas a lot (much like leopard geckos), which leads me to believe that just high humidity won't cause much of a problem, though it would probably be good to still try to keep it 50% or maybe lower, simply because you want your uro to be able to get away from the humidity when it chooses. i haven't seen any studies on it yet, but I would think that constant high humidity would be very bad for the health of a uro.

But it's really your call. If you wanna stick it out and risk it for another couple days to see what happens, you can. I just think it is probably more important to get the uro on whatever substrate it's used to, and sort of go "back to the drawing board" as they say. Do some more work on your dirt mix to get it better basically. If you are using a shallow layer though, you might be better off to just use a rubbermaid container filled with the dirt, with an entrance hole or maybe a flexy plastic tube (about 3-4" to crawl through to get in. This is called a nestbox and, though not quite as good as a burrowing setup, can serve nearly the same purpose. If you have the room in the tank for it, I would try this before you try another full dirt setup again. Just my opinions.

Well now I am REALLY concerned.

What should the temps be in the caves/hides?

The humidity is now down to 60% so I am hoping that it keeps going down, though slowly... My temps are going up slowly as well. I have digital thermometers all over the tank... In hides, in the basking area, out in the open, cool side, middle, hot... What are my temps supposed to be at night? During the day?

His cave area is 76 (cool side and hot).
Temp on cool side is 80.
Temp on hot side is 84.
Basking is 94.

I know that the hot side needs to be raised. I am just trying to see if they go up. I am going to switch bulbs tomorrow and try different ones out. Do you think he will be OK in this setup until tomorrow?

Thanks for everything!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

if you want to stick it out with the dirt right now, just make sure you get a hotter bulb ASAP. Since the humidity is going down, I don't think you'll really have much to worry about. I was worried you might end up with too much stable humidity with the low temps. Just get the temps up there.

I thought it might be a good idea for you to switch back to sand for now, just so you could work with the dirt more (in a rubbermaid tub without animals) and see how you need to water it to keep it going good. If you do that though you'll want to set it up sort of like you would if housing animals. Put a heat lamp on it with a basking spot to sort of replicate what you would be going for with the real setup.

But, it seems like you're just going through a crash course of soil right now, so the best path might be to keep going and learn while you're at it. Get the better temps and learn how to keep the soil humid in the burrows and not so humid above ground.

Good luck, and warm the uro up.

I think i might. I just changed one of my 100watt bulbs to a 150 that I had... I am sure that will warm things up a bit. I moved my heat lights over to the side of the tank where he is sleeping. It is not his normal sleeping side (hot side of the tank) but I didn't want him to get too cold tonight either. The topsoil/sand mix is probably cold and damp though it looks like its drying out some on the top.

The humidity wasn't as high as I thought it was going to be... I thought it was going to keep going up but it didn't.

I think that your idea is a very good one! I just don't have another tank to hold him in now while I get the soil thing under control. I have a 10 gal. but he is definitely way too big to be put in there. My uro is about 9 inches from head to tail.

So I guess I am going through the crash course of soil. I am going to get better temps tomorrow and figure out this soil thing. I now have to figure out what you do to water it........ Watering can?

Thanks again for all your help. This is def. interesting and very educational! I just hope that my guy becomes happy again! OH and BTW, I thought my Uro was a girl (hence the name Matilda still in my signature) but she's not a girl, he's a boy! His name is Spike now... hahahhaa

Hope Spike starts to love his new home!

Thanks again!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

I use playsand for my uro and it tends to be a bit damp which is raise your humitity for a bit but it will soon dry out. You do need to get your day time temp up and let it cool down at night!!! I agree with a night temp of around 70 give or take. But no 10 minutes out of a heat lamp will not hurt him. If you give him day and night heat and light changes he is going to feel cold at times. Remember a uro can't make his own body heat so he will only be as hot at his cage temp.

Do any one here use millet seed for substrate?
That is what I am using. I just received my red Saharans and so far so good. They walk around there new cage did some basking and then went to sleep. My Male picked a little hide spot I made with this nice size rock cave and slate and the female went to the cool side cave that's 85 F. IMO, I would use the plastic box filled with that mix or do a sand and bed-a-beast mix and do the entrance hole with a flexi pipe tube 3" to crawl through to get in and out. If what you was using worked before I would keep using that. But that's just me.

What is bed-a-beast mix?
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

Bed A Beast is odorless, non toxic, nonabrasive to skin and eyes, highly absorbent and 100 percent harmless if ingested. Used and recommended by zoos nationwide, highly compressed bricks expand seven to eight times their original size when easily prepared by soaking in hot water. Bed A Beast holds and maintains moisture better than any other bedding product. That's the way LLLReptiles has it. I used it in a nest box mixed with play sand for some Red Ackies I had and might get again to lay some eggs and I love the way it worked out. So I figure I tell you about it We all are friends right? I mean we all love uromastyxs.hehehe

Charlie

I am not the best writer but I love to help when I can

Thank you Charlie! You are a big help! You are right, we are all friends and we all love our uros! I am definitely going to look into this Bed A Beast stuff... LLLReptile has it? Where else can you buy it?
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

I seen it under other names but I get it from LLLReptiles I don't want to get something different then what bought. 1-brick can fill 40 gallons or so. I am from NY like you.

Charlie

Oh yeah?? Where in NY?
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

In Ellenville NY

Oh wow you are really close to me! I am actually thinking about moving to Ellenville. There are new condos going up and I am looking right now to buy one. Unfortunately, my travel time to work would increase but it seems worth it. How long have you lived there? Do you like it?
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

Well, I will be living there in late July. Me and my girlfriend just got a house from her dad, long story, that we need to rebuild and we will be able to move in late July. Lot's of plan's for reptile rooms and for building motorcycles, that's what I went to school for.

Charlie
Do you go to the White Plains show? I might have a table in July, maybe we can meet.

Actually I wanted to go to the White Plains show this past weekend but didn't get to go. I am a new uro owner. I never had reptiles before except an iguana when I was very, very young. Now that I am an adult, I have a tortoise and a uro! I love em! Keep me posted on the table at the next show. I'd love to check it out. I'll be sure to be there!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Spike
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

Will do and good luck with the set up. You will do fine.

Take Care
Charlie

First, don't take out the soil. Leave it there. It may honestly take about a week before your uro gets used to his new home. Eventually he'll like it better! Our uros are all on a soil/peat moss/play sand mix which they all enjoy.

The only real problem is the basking temp...it could be a little cold because of the damp soil...play it out for a day or so but definitely grab another heat lamp to increase the temp.

I don't like the bed-a-beast at all...I actually really don't like any of that commercial stuff. Seriously the soil/sand/peat mix has been our main mix for egg laying substrate for all of our snakes, beardies and geckos for the last year or just under...we just recently switched our uros to the same mix as a substrate and they love it. Tunnels everywhere, digging and they seem happier.

Anyway, whatever you do, good luck.
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Chris Vanderwees

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That's your opinion. I like Bed-A-Beast in my nest box mix, It works for me and my reptiles. I just wanted to let her know what I use. I really don't like the peat moss, they might eat that and make more of a mess. I been collecting reptiles for 21 years and have a lot now. I am not saying that what works for you is bad its just what you like, that's all.

Charlie

And I sure don't know it all. That is why we come here to learn from each other and help each other out.

Hi Chris,
I've been seeing on the message board how many love the soil mixtures. I've been reading all of Robyn's posts and the old forum posts on soil and I became quite interested in it. Like I said up in another post, I've been watching my uro and all the digging in the sand that he did...but he wasn't getting anywhere since the sand doesn't hold.

I think I am going to wait this out nad see how it goes. Hopefully he will come out of his cave and get warm! I moved the heat lights over to that side of the tank because I don't want him to be too cold tonight.

I mixed topsoil and sand. I'd have to say that my mix is about 75% topsoil and 25% sand... Do you think that is ok? I made him 2 caves because I was worried that if I didn't put support underneath that they might give and fall on top of him when I am not home.

The basking temp really does need to come up. I am going to get a better bulb tomorrow. I am also thinking about building his basking area closer to the bulb. For instance, the basking area is a piece of slate right now... But what if I put 2 bricks on their sides and the slate across? It makes another hide but also elevates the basking area closer to the bulb...

The soil is a bit damp so it's probably cold... It def. looks like it's drying out. I am going to add another lamp just to be safe.

Do you suggest me adding anything else to the mix that I've made? I see you have a peatmoss mix... Like I said, I just have topsoil and playsand... What do you think?

Thank you for your advice! It's greatly appreciated!!!!!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY

I personally do not care for the bed a beast for uros mainly because they do not need a wet/damp environment. I had rescued 2 uros that were in an environment that was too damp and it caused their scales to rot right off their body till it bled. Not pretty...not to mention..uro's do NOT need high humidity!

So I'd be cautious if your going to get into something that holds water so well. However, I DO like it very much for my fire bellied toads that NEED a very wet, humid environment.

As far as the soil/sand mix, hey...if he comes out and likes it, great . Maybe just give him some time to come out first. I think he's still trying to acclimate and get brave enough to come out and see his new digs .

just my opinions....
Renee

My humidity is down to 60% This I am VERY happy with. My room humidity is normally around 40-50%... I am thinking that it will drop a tad more as the soil forms it's crust on top. It actually already has. I was SHOCKED this morning when I dug Spike out of his hide and the crust that flaked up was about an inch thick! Under the crust was moist soil (not too moist) as it is naturally in the wild. I think I am going to stick with this. I am also not too thrilled with the vermiculite thing... I am not convinced that it's a necessity yet.

I hope he starts digging in soon. I am sure he will start experimenting once I get his heat up. I am really keeping my fingers crossed that this soil mix will work. My heart would break every time I saw my guy trying to dig in his 3” of sand and just pushing it away and eventually getting to the bottom of the tank.

I had my mother go to my house and check on him. He seems to be quite more active than this AM when she checked on him. He is def. checking the new surroundings out!

I will know more when I leave here and go home! I am so excited!!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Spike
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net
Monroe, NY