Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just can't figure it out! I think my temps are wrong, in-fact I think they were to warm for the whole time. The snakes are in perfect health.

Open-air rack, room, temps at night between 78-80. I don't think the air temps EVER went lower then 77. Humidity in the ROOM itself never drops below 55%, but it usually stays right around 65% 67%.

I worked so hard getting these females up to size. You know how it is with these snakes. I have 10 females that are 2001 snakes. There sizes range from 2300 grams down to 1000 grams.

The rest of ball pythons are 2002 snakes and none are large enough to breed.

These five females copulated with males multiple times, some up to 8 times! All these females range between 2000-2250 grams. The males were popped for plugs and they had em.

Three of these females blew up like balloons (ovulation I think), then deflated.

These few females had plenty of body weight, and I know were in top shape.

I have another female who is 1900 grams, but no I have never attempted to breed her. Not because she is not at the 2000 gram mark (which is what I think is best to start at), but because I know that she would not produce a good clutch. She is a very long and skinny 1900 grams (het albino).

I know temps are IMPORTANT. If someone could tell me that YES a room temp of NO LESS then 77 degrees is still to high and that it could effect reproduction in some way then I think that would be my answer.

I wanted just ONE CLUTCH this year so bad, it would be my FIRST clutch EVER of any type of snake. My own babies! I think it would be more exciting then anything. I really cannot think of anything better then seeing your own babies pop out of that egg for THE FIRST TIME.

I keep viewing my Snakekeeper BP videos, racking my brain trying to figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong. I still have a little drop of hope that all of the sudden in a few weeks or months that I am going to have a few clutches of eggs.

But the female seem skinny they don't look like anything is going on with them. There also still off feed. Only my smaller 2002 females are coming back on now, but none of the 2001 females.

Damon. Its hard to say what if anything you have "done wrong". My first comment is that if the snakes ovulated, you will get eggs. Balls can resorb undevloped follicles, but once ovulation occurs, you get eggs. As far as the temps go, you may very well have been too warm. During the winter, my ambient air temps get into the upper 60s. I have enclosed melamine rackes, and that gives me a themal gradient of about 84-72, with a small spot a bit higher. I would encourage you to get them temps down next winter. I've heard that lots of folks have success with shutting off the heat entirley at night, and resuming normal temps during the day. Last year I used a 5 degree night drop, but this year I did not...just let the naturally cooler temps persist throughout. My racks are similar to Markus Jaynes, and I even pulled the tubs out a bit when males and females were introduced, cooling the tubs a bit more. Also, I always manipulate photoperiod, giving the snakes about 8 hours of light during the winter, and gradually returning to 12/12 during the spring. I'm only breeding 3 female balls this year, one has laid, the other is about to lay, and the third is building follicles. As far as your feeding problems, I don't know what to say. I hope you still see some eggies this season, I know you've "paid your dues". Goodluck!
Joe Pociask Pythons

I know some snakes will breed with no temp drop, but most need a temp drop in winter shorter day lenghts also help. I don't breed Balls yet, but have bred other species from the same area, and I would go with a nightime temp of 70-75F no higher. Your temps may have been too warm for the females to properly cycle, or for the male to produce viable sperm.

If you have seen ovulation, you will get eggs, but if the females you seen blow up, start feeding well, I would say it wasn't ovulation.

Hope I'm right with this info for Balls.

Chad

You are one stressed dude! I have been following your posts since you first got into ball pythons a couple of years back and I can tell you are still fairly young and strung out. You need to chill! Which brings me to my next suugestion. So do your snakes!

Yes I would concur that the reason you have not experienced any ovulation (and I'm sure you wouldn't miss any of them because you look in your containers at least 12 times a day...am I right?) is because your females did not get cold enough. That is the trigger! That and introducing a male.

I can only speak from my own experience, but I let my room temps go down to 69 - 72 on average for 4 months before I start to warm-up again. I do allow for sublimental heat though at the hot spot of about 82 degrees.

You need to chaulk this one up to experience. Don't give-up. Think about the year you will have next year. If you need help please feel free to e-mail me personally. Call me if you like. I will tell you everything I know. You just need to take a few (maybe more than a few) deep breaths and believe that everything will be allright.

Hey did I mention that I have 7 clutches in the incubator and more to come! LOL! Sorry. I couldn't resist.

MJ
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Best of luck Brother, it will all pay off it time, just be patient, I know that is hard to do but you can do it..
Have a great day.

I'm going to work with them this summer harder then ever.

I am going to pump em up even more! I'm more determined now then ever. I hope with any luck I will have a few 2500+ gram monster females for next year.

It will be a long hot summer in the snake room, but if they start pounding food again it will be well worth it.

7 Clutches Markus!! OooooOOOOO IM SO JEALOUS I'm drooling on my keyboard! Send me an empty egg shell! I want to see a snake egg in person I've only seem them in pictures.

PS I don't look in my cages 12+ times a day. I used to, but now I LEAVE them ALONE, the only time I see them is when I feed or need to do a major cage cleaning. I do as little as possible as not to disturb them.

And man if there feeding on a somewhat regular schedule I even cut there water changing schedule back a few days. Anything to keep them happy!

I am glad you are not giving up......Next season should be better just bring those temps down a little more and you should be ok.....

I know you dont like listening to me lol....you never return my emails and such but I still want to see you get some eggs so that all your hard work will finally pay off.......

If you want to see some eggs you can come over my clutch of 11 are hatching......yep its been 55 days already....

Raul

People seem to focus so much on pumping up their females. This is not always a good thing. Fat females don't always produce better. My first 3 snakes to ovulate and give me eggs this year were problem feeders and if I had to describe them, I would say they were on the skinny side of the scale. What did I get? 8...6...and 5 egg clutches...all good! These were all maiden clutches as well.

The only females I got slugs from so far are the fat ones...today...a 6/3 (done) and 4/1 (she still isn't finished laying. She gave me 11 eggs the last 2 years).

Like I said, call me or e-mail me. I'll walk you through it.

MJ
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I've got a female I picked up as a wildcaught adult. She appears to be axanthic, and I'm just dying to find out if the appearance is inheritable (I'll put a picture in below). She didn't eat a thing from April '02 when I got her until February of '03. Anyway, after about a year of trying to get her acclimated, and all that involves, I finally got her feeding readily on F/T rats. Only trouble was I thought she was a little too thin to produce. After a lot of thought, I decied to go ahead and breed her this year. I wasn't sure if she'd produce, but I didn't see any harm in trying. We'll right now she is gravid, and I'm expecting to get a smallish clutch of 4 or 5 eggs within the next coupe of weeks. I'll keep you all up to date!

Joe Pociask

do you find that they keep eating after the pre-lay shed to the point of laying eggs?

Just trying to figure out if mine might be prego or not. She shed around the first weekend of the month and is looking huge, but she is still eating alot.

I am in CA and I heard our season starts alittle later than the east coast is that true?

I am not sure if she will lay for me or not I got a normal pair mid season and they were "cycled" so I was told, but who knows what temps she was kept at, I have seen copulation many times for a day at a time. keeping fingers crossed.
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Misty Sprouse Ball Pythons

I have never had a female eat after ovulation, but I'm sure it happens from time to time. But I have never even heard of a female eating after the pre-lay shed. I had a blood python once that I was unsure of, and she would kill the rat, but never eat it. This was after ovulation.
Jason
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thanks, dang I was hoping I would get eggs but she has been eating just about anything I give her. I can just keep my fingers crossed that in CA we have a later season and maybe I will still have a chance.
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Misty Sprouse Ball Pythons

My ball pythons aren't aware they need to be cycled to breed and lay eggs. Night time temps are usually 80 or more and day temps are mid 80's. We have several clutches incubating and have had exactly one infertile egg in the past 2 years. The past couple years I've kept all my snakes warmer during breeding season with great results with everything except boas. For the most part, snakes are seasonal breeders that need little more than to be healthy and mature to reproduce. I heat my room and not the cages. The temperature in Ghana today is 85-90. Everyone has their own method, this works for me.
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Mark Kennedy Reptiles

I wonder how much of a factor a winter drop in humidity is.

From what I've read, one of the most notable seasonal changes in Ghana (or at least the Northern part) is when slightly cooler but much dryer (i.e. 40% rather than 95%) air comes off the Sahara desert. Maybe our winter furnace drying is the trigger that gets them to breed as much as temp drop. I also wonder how much light cycling they have in their equatorial home range, I'm thinking not much but I do it anyway just in case.

I know you have been very successful breeding ball pythons with little or no manipulation and I applaude you for it...but...I wonder what the temps are for the balls in their dens. I would think that it would be cooler than the air temps as well as more humid. I often thought that a good study would be to insert temp probes in the dens and take daily readings on both.

The only problem is that I would have to go to Africa to do that and I just don't have the time! LOL!

What do you think? Are the temps cooler and more consistant below ground or above?

MJ
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The Earth is the biggest heat-sink around, so of course the temps are going to be more moderate and consistent than above ground. Also, monitors in the area bask on rocks that are 150F. Should we keep all the animals from that part of Africa at 150F? Weather and climate stats are useless, unless you physically go to Ghana and measure the MICROCLIMATE that Balls actually live in.

Air temperature in Brazil is 32 Celsius. If I kept a Rainbow Boa at 32 Celsius, it wouldn't live too long. Microclimates.

I agree, I would expect it to be cooler than the daytime high and more consistent.

There was an article in an old Reptiles and Amphibian magazine by a guy who went to Africa and followed a digger around. It's been years but I seem to remember him recording one down hole temp in the 90's which was a little surprising to me. Hardly a scientific study but I wonder if anyone still has that article to check the details.

That happened to me last year. I had 8 females well over 3,000 grams, and 10 at around 2,500 grams. And I got nothing. This year I made sure my temps were right, and now I'm on day 31 with my first clutch of the season. With many more coming. It really sucks, but there is only one thing you can do, pound them with food, correct your temps next year, and hope for the best. Who knows, you said you saw a few swell up, you still may get a few clutches this season. Good Luck!

Jay Cassidy

CavemanReptiles.com

I bred 10 females I think...?...I didn't count for awhile....

and only one laid so far.......

none eat but the one that laid.....

and some look fat,some look huge,and some look normal.......

I know that one huge old girl is not gravid.....the other 8 probably will go when they want....

one within a week.......

they do what THEY want......

I hate balls ....they suck soooooooooooo bad..........

you want a snake that eats and breeds better?...but not perfectly...?...get corns...

and they suck too......

JY

Here is my limited experience. Last year this time I felt exactly the same as you. I had never produced any babies and I was one worried father. I was working with a much smaller group than you are though, one female bp and one female columbian boa. I had noticed both of them swell up pretty good at one time, but then, just like yours, the swelling went away and I didn't think anything was going on. About two weeks before they laid eggs/live birth I was starting to become a little more convinced I might get something, but I still wasn't sure. I thought at best I would get 3 or 4 eggs, and maybe 10-15 boas.
In the end I got 8 ~100g eggs (that all hatched out great), and 19 little boas. I had 0 infertile, and I got all 27 snakes feeding well and now are all in new homes but the three female bps I kept.
So, from reading your story, I would say that if I were you I would still be watching out for some eggs! I think you have a good chance. For sure keep us posted! I feel for you man! I REALLY hope you don't have to wait another year! GOOD LUCK!

Ben