Reptile & Amphibian Forums

That thread down the page is getting really long and will soon be off the page...so I thought I'd start a new one....

First off...leos CAN NOT be compared to humans...they are not humans and have EXTEREMLY different needs... You wouldn't say a leo needs fruit just because we should eat it would you?...why compare spacial needs?...humans by nature are hunter/gatherers and as a species are fairly nomadic and energetic....leos on the other hand are rarely go very far from "home" and are quite sedentary. Humans are also a diurnal species, where as leos are nocturnal....humans are warmblooded and leos coldblooded...humans are omnivores, leos are carnivores...I see no basis for comparison here whatsoever.

Leopard geckos are nocturnal, fairly sedentary, prey animals. That right there should tell you a lot about them... Being nocturnal means they thrive in darkness, being fairly sedentary means they don't need a great deal of excercise, and being prey animals means they are less stressed in secure smallish spaces that they feel nothing can get into to attack them. That right there tells me they should THRIVE in racks...which they do. Racks provide fairly small, dark, and secure spaces.

As far as 10 gallon tanks...leos do not need tons of room to run around....they need space to hide, eat, and drink...and do SOME exploring. A simple ten gallon with the 2 basic hides and a water dish I don't feel is sufficient...however if some climbing space or a second level is provided, I think a 10 gallon is plenty for an adult leo to thrive in.

Finally...even if you don't agree with this opinion...don't go calling people cruel...besides making you sound like a "not nice person"...there's really no basis for it...sure, some leos may do better in larger spaces, but a LOT of people have kept leos healthy and thriving in 10 gallons...so I don't know how you can say its cruel to keep an animal somewhere when many have been kept healthy and thriving in such environments.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

one word...amen

VERY good points made there...
i use racks...my leos where in 10g tanks when i first got them, being in the racks now..they seem to have gained much more weight,and eat WAY better,and breed now..lol, the fact that people were compairing reptiles to humans is completely and udderly ridiculous, although reptiles along with all animals( rats for example) are very intellegent, some people dont stop to think about how a gecko or any other animal finds its food...finds its water...knows how to lick calcium out of a dish...are potty trained(my 5 1/2 igs are..lol)i think we massively underestimate the intellegence of 1 to many differnt speices of animal..(except turkeys...LOL). reptiles are and always have been my life and i will continue to think they are the most facinating animals and one of the most intellegent on this earth.

Dan

My leo seem to be doing fine in my 2x1 enclosure, he dont roam much he seem to be content just to be able to heat is belly on the tile over the heat pad. On the other hand, my collared lizard that is about the same size of a leo spend a LOT of time running, digging and jumping in his enclosure that is a lot bigger. So if we cant compare two species of reptile, we surely cant compare human to leos.
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Mizar 21
1.0 Collared lizard (Ganymede)
1.0 Leopard Gecko (Gethsemani)
1.0 Nerodia Fasciata (Serpentard)
1.2 Cats

np
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

I think keeping a single leopard gecko in a 10-gal tank is fine. Of course, anything bigger would be nice... but not always practical for many people's space allowances. If it were cruel, then so would keeping a goldfish in a bowl or a bird in a cage.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

uuh....Keeping a goldfish in a bowl IS cruel. They grow to around 10 inches and defecate a lot. Having a goldfish in a tank that is smaller than 10 gallons and has a very good filter is cruel. The ammonia will build up and the goldfish will die from its own wastes.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

...it does require water changes and good husbandry just like any other creature would to prevent what you described, and in a small environment a goldfish would not grow to 10 inches. Not caring for a fish in a bowl is what is cruel.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

yes. But isn't stunting the animals growth purposely cruel?
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

Not unless you feel that every goldfish should be allowed to grow into the size of a Koi! LOL!!!
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

I don't think it is in goldfish...their growth "stunting" is an evolutionary device to allow them to live in more varied environments than would normally be possible. Any other animal (that I can think of) will grow to normal size regardless of enclosure size if all other aspects of care are good. I don't like bowls though...mostly because no one changes the water as often as they should. I have heard of bowl bound goldfish living to around 30 years though.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

I want to commend you for one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum down below. If you can't see eye to eye with the points the Winged makes in his posts, reptiles are not for you...maybe a poodle would suit you better.

Winged's post

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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

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E2MacPets
http://www.e2macpets.com

How are you doing?...drop me an email.

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>>E2MacPets
>>http://www.e2macpets.com
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

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>>
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>>E2MacPets
>>http://www.e2macpets.com
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

Here is a REALLY bad picture of my messy setup right now. I have racks as well, but found that I missed seeing my favorite animals. About 6 months ago I switched all my animals to this style of setup.

Yes, they are on SAND!!! EVIL!!!! Other than that please assume all the standard husbandry practices are being observed. This is 6 months out of 4 years of ownership.

My experiences:

Geckos appear more stressed, rather than use their hide boxes they actually dig under the hides.
Reduced appetite
Fewer observed breedings
Lower egg production
Poor recovery rate on eggs, that is more laid outside the moist hide and dried up from lighting.

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E2MacPets
http://www.e2macpets.com

Steven, sorry if it's specified, but are you experiencing this with the geckos in the 10-gal tanks, or are these the reasons you switched to using them?

>>My experiences:
>>
>>Geckos appear more stressed, rather than use their hide boxes they actually dig under the hides.
>>Reduced appetite
>>Fewer observed breedings
>>Lower egg production
>>Poor recovery rate on eggs, that is more laid outside the moist hide and dried up from lighting.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

holy cow just let it go, stop trying to start arguments and waste threads. These forums are to help people that need things to be answered and all you are doing is just trying to start problems. So why dont you stop all this bull [bleep] and start helping others instead of trying to get everyone pissed off and stop coming to this site to get help.
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Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!! Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!

umm...aren't you the only one arguing with what I said right now?...seems like everyone else who responded thinks I was making a good point...I think the argument is a good one and knowing what size tank a leo can live in is VERY important to newbies...so I think it is completely relevant and its absurd that you're telling me "Let it go"
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

Fine, for all the "newbies" out there get a 15 or 20 gallong long tank for your adult leopard gecko. I dont like 10 gallons because A. I DONT THINK it is enough roaming space for your geckos. B. You cant fit alot of cool stuff in a 10 gallon tank. To ME a ten gallon is just plain and simple 1 hide, 1 humidity box, almost 0 fun stuff to climb on.
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Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!! Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!

They don't need a lot of "cool stuff"...cool stuff isn't for them its for you...They just need some climbing space, and its entirely possible to put climbing space in a ten gallon...ever heard of branches?...yeah, they make great climbing spaces, plus in a ten gallon they make it more secure and gives more hiding space. Some people don't have room for a 15 or 20 gallon...but may still desperately want a leopard gecko...I'd hate for someone to not get a leo because someone told them falsely that leo couldn't live in a ten gallon and be healthy and thrive....
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

They can live in it and be healthy but you'll have to get it out every day for 2 hours so it can get exercise and get it out again the same day... and yes i do have my leo in a 10 gallon tank. It looks dumb and thats why im going to get a 20 or 29 gallon because i personally think 10 gallon tanks are just not big enough. Plus a 20 gallon tank isnt very much bigger than 10 gallon so i think someone who really wants a leo can find some room for one.

I never said that a 10 gallon tank is cruel i said it isnt a big enough space for a leopard gecko... and i got a leo because it wasnt an adult and therefore a juvinal leopard gecko does not need 20 gallons because it is only 5-6 inches.

Oh yeah and one more thing. Most people get their leopard geckos so that they can have a cage that looks awsome instead of having cardboard crap in it... So yes a 20 gallon tank would be the best thing for everyone.

Also the one person who has 4 leos in one 10 gallon tank, why dont you consider getting like a 40 gallon breeder tank. 10 gallon isnt quite big enough for 1 leopard gecko let alone 4.
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Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!! Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!

First of all...who said anything about "cardboard crap"???...I know I could make a 10 gallon look fantastic and have lots of space to climb and hide...when I have time I'll fix up my juvie albino's tank and show you... And actually a 20 gallon is quite a bit larger than a 10...I know anyone in a dorm would be a hell of a lot better off with the extra inches of space a 10 would give them! And it is definitely not 5-6 inches...the cubic space a 20 takes up over a 10 is quite a bit more...I know I had difficulty finding a place for mine in a fairly large apartment...technically it doesn't even really fit where I have it in my apartment, its on a small end table behind the couch and it hangs off 4 or 5 inches on each side of the table...luckily it doesn't water or anything in it...b/c then I would have no place to put it! Trust me a 20 gallon...or even a 15...vs. a 10 could mean the difference between getting a leo or not for some people...and that reason shouldn't keep them from getting one because a leo can be healthy and thrive in a 10 gallon...without being taken out for hours a day...leos don't "roam"...they stay close to "home" and explore their own territory...that's why they get stressed out when their environment changes...its something new and they feel too far from home and like they might get eaten by something. Also...I don't think that one person was saying they have 4 leos in one 10 gallon...I think he meant he has 4 leos each in their own 10 gallons.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

In most things even the most simple ideas/inventions are the most successful. You can make a better hide out of a cardboard box than ANYTHING you can buy at a pet store.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

and that he's healthy and doing well?...If you think a 10 gallon is cruel than why did you get a leo in the first place if you didn't have something that would suit it?...
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.