Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My little ATB still hasn't eaten. I've had him since March 15th, you can scroll down on the forum menu to see my previous thread on it. I've tried live, frozen/thawed/warmed fuzzies, scenting either way with brown anoles. Occasionally it elicits a strike, often it doesn't, and when it does, he won't commit to it and coil. At what point do I consider assist feeding?

By the way, he otherwise appears healthy. No sign of dehydration, quite active at night. The tank is in a high traffic area, should I consider moving it to a more isolated spot to increase the animal's comfort?

Move the tank...DO NOT force feed. just keep trying different ways and types..also experiment with times..if you can stay up until like 3 or 4am..try then from your hand. make sure you have good conditions...temp and humidity guages are working good...keep us posted on whats going on but DO NOT force feed keep trying to get it to strike and maybe after a shed you will get some luck.

Thanks,
Moved the tank this morning.

Why no assist feeding?

For a lot of reasons. One being that it can cause more harm and the snake my have more mental damage and be less inclined to eat after going through this. 95% of force feedings are done too soon and waiting it out would have solved the problem in some way. It is a snake which is an animal with a long history of evolution that has adapted to long times without food so you want it to eat more than it actually needs to. You are also risking physical harm to the snake especially with ATB's. Do you plan on ramming food down that skinny little neck? Even what you do manage to get down would be a small food item and would do little good anyway...be patient and keep us posted..only resort to force feeding when everything else will not work and the snakes health is at serious risk. If it is not loosing a ton of weight and looks to have descent mass...try other things first. Have you tried birds?

Whats the deal? Has he eaten yet? Force feeding should be the last resort. I think I mentioned it earlier but I have gotten all of my neonates to eat either paper bagging them with a fuzzy or bleeding a fuzzy. Ok let me explain, its a little cruel maybe, but the snake comes first then the mouse. Anyway I cut the top of a fuzzy's head just enough for a drop of blood to surface. I then use tongs or tweezers and put the fuz up to the snake ( at night preferably). Once the snake touches the blood with its tongue they go for it (so far.) Usually they will get closer and closer until they can actually drink the blood then they slowly open their mouth and take it. Its important that the mouses head is restrained so that it doesnt tap the snakes nose or they will usually pull back so keep the mouse steady. The fuzzy is still alive and when the snake grabs it and the rodent reacts the snake begins constriction. Good luck, I hope you get him started.

Chris

No.

Yes, thank you. I did try paper bagging to no avail. Bleeding will be the next attempt.

eunectes,

Thanks for that fantastic post and your explanations; all make perfect sense. I just got back from a week of fieldwork, so I'm going to try again soon. He still looks happy, decent mass, no sign of dehydration or weight loss. Temp and humidity are good. I haven't tried birds, is it something I should look into?

Best,
Chris

Have you seen those nice long teeth in the front of an amazon tree boas mouth? those are designed to catch birds mainly. They are not easy prey because they fly and have big puffy feathers...these long teeth come in handy to grab onto a bird. If you get some good photos you can see when almost any tree boa is putting a food item down...the front teeth are very long..much longer than the rest. Birds is something you may want to try, but rodents are a better choice for a staple diet mostly because it is more convenient to you. Something (a bird) is better than nothing and you can work with getting it switched over later on, once you get some kind of food down...it eating something on its own is way better than forcing a rodent down. Chain feeding however, should not be bad in order to help switching it over if scenting does not work at first. I have an anaconda that will not take anything but chicken and snakes(im sure it will take other things like baby gators, caimen, etc...but im not willing to try that when she eats chicken). The snakes I actually found out by accident when I ran out of cage space one day and I left a garter in there since this anaconda was not eating. Next day it was gone...I got a few more to get something in this snakes stomach. While I was waiting for the spring hatch of chicks (I was sure she would take those) I called a guy that delt with quite a few import anacondas and asked what he thought. He said try grocery store chicken (this was a new idea for me) and the anaconda took that right away and did so as a staple diet for a long time. I then found a guy that sold frozen baby chicks and with some work I got her eating those (not as easy to get her to take those as the grocery chicken parts, but its whole food and I throw in both in her diet now until I get her on rodents...the parts are because baby chicks do not have much to them but give the snake things the grocery store chicken cant). Sorry to ramble on about anacondas but the point is you can do a lot of work and you might come up with a solution that works right for your snake that many have not tried. People are shocked when i told them my snake eats other snakes so there is no way i would house anything else with it (taboo in this hobby anyway). Good luck and just keep trying and tell us what works for ya.

Thanks again eunectes.

One point about the teeth, rather than simply designed for penetrating feathers, they are likely an evolutionary convention that acts in a similar way that venomous snakes employ envenomation: safety. Also, they limit physical energy expense. Having those front mounted, long teeth has little correlation to diet. Since they are primarily arboreal hunters, capture of endothermic, arboreal animals needs to be assured. A dropped prey item means a great energy expense and risk to the animal while retrieving the meal. Or, if the meal is not retrieved, the energy spent on the ambush strike is wasted. This means the teeth correspond primarily to lifestyle.

There is ample data to support this, including the shape of the teeth and the actual pattern of motion the teeth undergo when striking prey. They are for holding, not penetrating. Not to mention, birds are part of a well partitioned juvenile diet that consists primarily of lizards, rodents, and birds.

I got that info from the most detailed book I have ever read, "Snakes: The Evolution of Mystery in Nature"...great book. While all your points are deffinitely valid and I agree with them, arboreal animals tend to take bird because birds live in trees, makes sense right. So it is pretty much the same thing, but does have to do with a large diet of birds

No disagreement here.

It has now been shown that birds are not a staple diet for Corallus. They prey mainly on mammals as adults and their teeth are long so prey is not dropped and lost on the ground. "Kaleidoscopic Tree Boas" is probably the most up to date book available right now regarding Corallus. I didnt know anacondas were so into other snakes! Ive considered them but their size is what worries me.

Chris

Nice input. I guess it is not good to take one source too highly. "the evolution of mystery in nature" does still stand as the best book i own though. looks like i need to pick up a new one on tree boas ; ) However, while I understand there is hardly a singe staple diet for ATB's and they tend to eat mammels and lizards, birds are in the diet and a hard item to catch so I do not understand how it is not related. The whole point was for him to try birds, since some snakes are picky and that could be what works for him. (green)Anacondas prey on rodents in the wild too...but mine doesnt and most babies will need to be started with chicks. I also know someone who had an ATB that would not eat forever. This animal was in a pet store he worked at they could not sell it because it was so nippy. He did some research and ended up writing off a finch and thats what got the snake eating.

Dont get me wrong, Im sure being in the tree tops they have to make a meal of a bird every so often. I used to feed my ATBs birds whenever I found them and for a snake not eating I would try anything to get it started. I just stop robbing nest as often as I used. I was a mockingbirds worst enemy when I first started keeping ATBs. Anyway, ChrisFl if you can find small birds offer them to get the snake to eat.

Chris