Reptile & Amphibian Forums

That they can post a picture of, please? I think I have one of these Olive Grass Snakes, thanks to the kind help in the "What kind of snake is this??" forum. I can't find any decent pictures online however, in order to make a positive identification.

I have posted pictures of my girl on my yahoo photos page, under "snake pics" here http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/lady_sybella if anyone wants to take a look at her.

For comparison.

I'm not sure exactly which species of Psammophis that is (the taxonomy of the genus is rather a mess). However, there's a couple minor details you should be aware of.

They are in a separate family (Psammophiinae) along with other genera such as Malpolon. Their closest neighbors are the snakes in Madagascar (the Psudoxyrhophiinae lineage) and also the Atractaspidae (the stilleto snakes).They are not 'colubrids' even by a conventional, informal definition but rather if a strict decision had to be made between 'colubrid' and 'elapid', the Psammophis are 'Elapids'.

The venom glands are huge (bigger than some elapids) and the venom is actually quite toxic. We rate the larger species as potentially lethal. In particular is mossambica, this is the one that is sold as sibilans, the true sibilans is a dinky little thing.

In anycase, they are very neat snakes and usually settle down well into captivity. Just be aware of the potential for bites and treat them accordingly.

Enjoy
BGF
Venom & Toxin Database

Absolutely insane, this just goes to prove my point that the taxonomy of many Colubrids needs revision.

It's really a shame that "they" seem to have made the Colubrid family a taxonomic trashcan.

The Colubroidea (which is the superfamily that includes Elapidae and Viperidae as well all the other advanced snakes) has actually been sorted to some degree. It'll just take a while for it to make it down to the pet trade level and even longer for it to make it to the vast majority of toxinologists.

We've got some papers on the various venoms (including Psammophis) that are going to crack some skulls. Soon, soon.

Cheers
B

Thank you, Bryan! I knew she was rear-fanged and venomous from the start. She does have that "poison" look to her. The guy who gave her to me was bitten by her, knowing she was rear-fanged, but didn't have a reaction. She had layed some eggs I think that was why she was pissy. LOL!

She's been a total sweetheart with me. I had her on my shoulder today and she was going in and out of my shirt. She's too cute, the way she tilts her head to look at things like birds do. LOL!

I also handle my FWCs regularly and was bitten by one once with no reaction. I haven't been worried about this snake at all...but I appreciate the warning. I've been searching the internet for a few days now and every site says that the psammophis are only mildly toxic. If you have other information, I'd love to see it.

Please be more careful with your Psammy. They have been cited in quite a few bites that are not what I would call "mild"

Your animal is not very small and is probably quite capable of ruining your week, do not be the one to find out that your snake is lethal!

If you can, would you see if you can find those citations? Everything I've read states otherwise... :/

Senter, P. 1998. A bite from the rear-fanged colubrid Psammophis phillipsii. Herpetological Review 29(4): 216-217.

Sorry I cant find you the full text but Teusday when I'm at the Cal Poly library I'll see if they have it.

Thank you!!!! You're a doll for going through so much effort!! Where's a kiss emoticon when you need it??

Well, I was a bit dissapointed.

Appaerently it was a bit of a nip, though it was a fairly nasty bite. Moderate swelling and a headache if I read it correctly. summed up at the end with a be careful

I just discovered that smilies might be disabled in the subject line...that should have read, "Ok, Saker. " but for some reason my smiley is gone.

Platypi are venomous!?!? I had no idea!!

Thank you so much for sharing your link...I look forward to returning soon.

Just the males... but I saw a picture of a guy who got stabbed by one, and his arm was totally messed up.. ouch!

At any rate, BGF really knows what he's talking about with venoms, so I'd trust his word. He's currently doing a lot of research with rear-fanged colubrids. He's like... the Tiger Woods of snake venom. And I saw him on TV, he even looks smart (maybe it's 'cause he's bald). So... be careful with that snake!

The Tiger Woods of snakes stuff and he looked smart on TV too?? LOL! You're too funny!!! I know what you mean though...he does look smart in his picutres on the website too. Maybe we should ask him to post a "dumb" one just so we can consider him on a more earthly level.

This snake had bitten the wholesaler that gave her to me and he didn't have a reaction. (That's mostly why he gave her to me. He said she was a viscious biting snake that bit the crud out of him. She's been sweet to me so I don't know what he did to piss her off. LOL!) Anyway, is the venom of psammies and FWCs similar in anyway? I don't know a thing about the structure of venom but I was bitten by one of my FWCs and it was just like any other snake bite.

By the way, she ate for me yesterday!! 2 rat pups. Yay!! Good girl!! LOL! I'm still going to get her an anole or two this week. I don't know what nutrient diffences there are but since she just laid eggs, I figure it couldn't hurt to give her both.

The venom is quite different than the false water cobras which isn't terribly suprising since they are in completely different families on different parts of the Colubroidea genetic tree.

All the best
BGF
Venom & Toxin Database

I really wanted a Psammophis but after all this scary colubrid venom talk I'm almost scared of my Western hognose. Which is strange because I keep two vipers. But the problem with exotic rearfangs is that if you do get bitten and you do have a reaction, there's not a lot they can do for you. And no one thought boomslangs were dangerous until a famous herpetologist got killed by one.
I'm not sure how 'effective' their venom delivery is, some rearfangs really have to chew on you to get any venom in. I like to err on the side of caution myself.
Good thing that he ate though! That's always a good moment in owning a snake, seeing those first rat pups disappear. Have you seen him 'annoint' himself yet? I always wanted to see that in person. (i'm thinking of the right snake, right?)

Yes, I was very relieved that she was comfortable enough to eat for me. I always worry when I get a new snake...until they eat their first meal with me.

Annoint? I don't know what you mean.

Oh, Psammophis secrets this oily stuff from their nose glands and rub it on their body. It helps keep in moisture. I'm sure you'll see it eventually. Good thing I mentioned it, you might have been worried.
(I am thinking of the right snake now, I looked it up.)

Yes, I am very glad you mentioned it!! I probably would have taken her to the vet if I found oily stuff oozing from her nose!!

You looked them up? What did you find?

From Snakes: The Evolution of Mystery in Nature by Harry Greene. pgs. 184-186---

Psammohiini

This well-defined group includes about 35 species in 8 genera of mostly slender, diurnal serpents, most of the Afro-Asian sandsnakes and grass snakes (Psammophis). At exception is teh Montpelier Snake (Malpolon monspessulanus), found in southwestern Europe as well as norther Africa.
Psammophiines are rear-fanged, and most are fast-moving predators of terrestrial lizards. Species of Psammophis are evidentaly graced with good vision; these snakes aften travel with their heads held off the ground, and they climb readily. Barksnakes (Hermirhagerrhis) are sevretive arboreal creatures, however, and beaked snakes (Rhamphiophis) use their sharply angled snouts to dig up Nake Mole Rats (Heterocephalus glaber) and other prey. Several psammphiines show maxilary modifications associated with eating skins, but they are evidently not closely related to other such snakes.
Some psammophiines bite fiercely when captured, and M. moilensis of western Asia spreads a small hood when threatened. Psammophiines have small, almost vestigial hemipenes and peculiar, 'detached' copulatory behavior. During copulation, Stripe-bellied sandsnakes (P. subtaeniatus) lie still with their cloacas about 1.5 cm apart and one of the male's wormlike hiemipenes visibly connecting them. Spotted Skaapstekers (Psammophylax rhombeatus) coil around their eggs, under a rock, throughout the 35-45 day incubation period.
Some psammphiines use sereotyped polishing movements to anoint their skins with a colorless, fast-drying fluid. This liquid is secreted by glands on either side of the snout and emerges from a pore indise each nostirl. The snakes polish themselves frequently, especially after ecdysis and feeding.

Thank you kindly!!!

i have a psammophis sibilans but... hey bryan are you telling me i have a mossambica? he's one tan color no lines huge fangs and potent venom,i thought it was sibilans got any pics to post of both species?
well i took a bite from this sucker a year ago if it's an elapid i'm one lucky guy.
hanks
alex

May I see pictures of your psammophis snakes, please??

Odds are its mossambicus. Its not an elapid per se but rather one if an absolute designation of elapid vs. colubrid had to be made. Its in its own family (Psammophiinae) along with Malpolon for example. They have big bloody teeth and huge venom glands (we were quite stunned at the venom yield and the physical size of the glands).

In any case, post a pic, I always enjoy looking at snake pics

Cheers
BGF

Odds are its mossambicus. Its not an elapid per se but rather one if an absolute designation of elapid vs. colubrid had to be made. Its in its own family (Psammophiinae) along with Malpolon for example. They have big bloody teeth and huge venom glands (we were quite stunned at the venom yield and the physical size of the glands).

In any case, post a pic, I always enjoy looking at snake pics

Cheers
BGF

i need to get my friends camera cause i dont have one then i'll post one.
alex

Hi, although new to this forum, I have just received 8 Psammophis in a shipment from Ghana by mistake!!! I have had them identified by one of the U.K's leading authorities on African snakes & he tells me I have 6 Psammophis sibilans & 2 Psammophis subtaeniatus. The subtaeniatus are absolutely loopy, very nervy & dart around their cage whenever disturbed, the sibilans are mpore confident of themselves & their defences! I was told of a story regarding a snake exhibitor in Africa who got bitten by a P.sibilans only to die during the night! This is an excellent reason to exercise caution! especially with the larger ones, the one you picture appears to me to be sibilans and is what I would class as juvenile by size comparison with my own, the largest one I have is about 36" & all will readily feed on defrosted mice of about 3weeks of age, they are extremely beautiful animals (the subtaeniatus are even nicer in my opinion)but I would advise EXTREME CAUTION when working with them, as they do have a very high yield & very large mouth which allows the fangs to engage easier as they are quite forward sitting in the mouth too.

Hope this helps

Mike.