Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My sav has been a terror as of late. He comes running at the glass mouth open anytime I go near it and tries to eat my fingers when i change his water everyday. I wouldn't call him defensive, he's just really aggressive. Anyway, I had read once that a diet of all meat (he gets mice and chicken) can cause this type of behavior? Has anyone else had the same problem?

He doesn't pay any attention to crickets and roaches aren't readily available around my area.

If all else with your husbandry or it is close enough to whats needed or right.
The temperature recently went up and your bosc is warmer now than he was, he now has the ability to defend himself and is at a useful warm temperature to him. Before you had a slow cooled off animal that couldnt defend himself, now you see hes a normal monitor and you need to gain his trust before he will stop acting as if you are an enemy. I hope that you didnt expect a different answer, it seems as if you were hinting at it by asking about changing his diet to try to get him slow, lethargic, helpless, and no spirit. A healthy monitor will always let you know on occaision when you have stepped a bit too far, whether its a tail slap etc. Changing his diet from a simple whole animal diet will result in a few things a runny stool with prepared meat, possible calcium problems, lack of enthusiasm to eat, problems getting needed nutrients, and a few other problems. Now you need to get to know your animals real personality and gain his trust, welcome to monitor lizards.

agressive. So if that is true and thats what you are feeding your Sav, you may want to try prekilled prey.

that is pretty funny. you are trying to talk something into not displaying normal behaviors.

again, i will say it: a monitor is not supposed to display human social behaviors, it is supposed to act monitorish.

if somebody can't handle a monitor they shouldn't get a monitor.

andrew

I'm not saying that I can't handle him. I've handled some pretty nasty animals before that were much worse.
I'm just saying that I'm surprised by his behavior a little because he will come running out of his hide spots when come near the cage. Most animals will stay hidden and try to avoid humans, but my sav seems to relish the idea of chomping a finger.

Perhaps it is just hungry.

I'm assuming it has a place to go, that it feels comfortable in, and does not feel cornered when you are changing the water. I haven't really ever seen monitors that would stand their ground if they had a place to go (if they are scared), except for maybe argus. If they feel cornered then that changes everything.

I have found hunger really makes them imagine that alot of things could be food like fingers, hands, arms, etc....

I doubt highly that feeding mice causes any sort of agression, beyond what they really are. I feed mostly frozen/thawed, but like to offer live mice on occasion, and that does not obviously change feeding agression either. The ones I can safely pick up and touch are by far the hardest hitters and the most agressive when it comes to food. If I don't feed one of these for (what they think is) an excessive amount of time and it can start to get interesting.

Good Luck,

--Robert

He's always hungry. I feed him pinkies and fuzzies till he won't eat anymore everynight. And everynight he surprises me by eating more than I think his body can fit in it. He's a little hog and he's growing like a weed. I have no problem with that, it's just that he always seems to think it's feeding time unless it's within an hour after his last meal.
He has three dark hide spots, one on the warm end and two on the cooler end. I keep his temps pretty high so I suppose that he just digests quickly and wants more. The reason I asked is because I had read on one of the proexotics care sheets that feeding all meat is almost like steroids. I guess I'll just stick to that though and keep trying to gain his trust and see if he will learn the difference between my fingers and pinkies! Thanks anyway, guys.

"I had read on one of the proexotics care sheets that feeding all meat is almost like steroids"

What else would you feed it then? They can't live off mashed potatoes, and peas.

They have been known to take some fruits, but you cannot simply feed them that and expect them to be healthy. They still need alot of other nutrition.

I would stick with the f/t rodent, or chick diet. You do know sometimes monitors are agressive no matter what we do. So you may just have a grumpy one is all. Nothing wrong with it he is just being himself.

Oh yeah and besides Pro exotics fed there albigs rats, and I recall the quote you mentioned is also listed under that caresheet as well.

Hopefully you are not feeding by hand or he will associate your hand with food [fingers also look like delicious pinkies] , feed off long tongs. Also if you happen to be feeding him every time you get in the cage he will associate this with food. Depending on your husbandry and how you have things set up, what you feed, they do not need to eat every day. Yes if he is really warm he will digest the food faster and be hungrier faster.

>>He's always hungry. I feed him pinkies and fuzzies till he won't eat anymore everynight. And everynight he surprises me by eating more than I think his body can fit in it. He's a little hog and he's growing like a weed. I have no problem with that, it's just that he always seems to think it's feeding time unless it's within an hour after his last meal.
>> He has three dark hide spots, one on the warm end and two on the cooler end. I keep his temps pretty high so I suppose that he just digests quickly and wants more. The reason I asked is because I had read on one of the proexotics care sheets that feeding all meat is almost like steroids. I guess I'll just stick to that though and keep trying to gain his trust and see if he will learn the difference between my fingers and pinkies! Thanks anyway, guys.

man, i try to offer so much detail on our caresheets and FAQ, but SO OFTEN, folks just take the middle of a sentence, or the middle of a thought, and then throw it around without context or care as to what the idea was....

a 100% meat diet is not the best idea for monitor BABIES! BABIES being the key word. at that size, they are naturally built to eat and digest bugs. if, like so many new keepers, you insist on stuffing them with heavy meat, you can very easily run into problems. digestion, attitude, or otherwise.

just imagine if you ate a 10 pound pot roast every single night. no veggies, no roughage, just meat meat meat. after a short time, you too would be in less that tip top shape, and you would not be in the best of moods. you belly would feel like a 1000 pound lead weight, and your colon, well, brick worthy.

keep some roughage in a baby monitors diet, roaches, crickets, insects, and keep things flowing smoothly, digesting quickly, and you will see better results, and a "happier" monitor.

this diet question is not so much an issue for an experienced keeper, the info i put out is to help the new hobbyist, but then again, they don't seem to read and comprehend it all anyway, which i really don't understand...

now i guarantee you some genius is going to take the above response and say "PE says baby monitors can only eat insects if you want them to live"
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Hey Robyn, I can clearly see where someone would question what you said. I mean I even remember reading your caresheet and it saying that rodents or meat or whatever, will make your monitor aggressive and I remember it not making much sense to me. Kind of like a monitor on steroids or some crap like that, you wrote . I don't think a monitor being that backed up or on the atkins diet would make em violent, think theyd probably be lame. The last thing I wanna do when I'm backed up is kick someones butt or be aggressive. Thats more of a metaphor type of thing, not reality. Plus the difference between pinkies and pinkies with some hair(which offers roughage) on them isn't much of a difference in size. Maybe you should reword it so it explains why monitors eating pinkies need som sort of roughage they can get from insects. That statement can be incredibly misleading.

man, and folks wonder why breeders don't post here...

i'm sorry ral, why don't you lead the charge from here on out, fn jerk.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Hey Robyn what else have you bred varanid wise besides the ackies? How are those prasinus? I was curious concerning your statement about breeding..... anyways do you have a current pricelist with all the cb you have bred thus far? I really am intrested in cb albigs or salvs.

am

Wow, you haven't been eating rodents have you? You can be a jerk yourself.

Here "master breeder" this is taken from your caresheet
"
Meats are offered for additional protein and calories, but you must keep in mind that these are small babies, and as such have small digestive systems. Loading them down with too much meat will not only encourage compaction and digestion problems, but it will act like monitor steroids on these guys, and you will then have an aggressive terror on your hands. Many customers have called to ask about the aggressiveness of their new baby Ionides, and more often than not, it is the case that they simply enjoy watching their animal chase and eat the mice, and they have been feeding nearly an all meat diet. When switched back to a cricket based diet, these same animals return to their predictable, tractable selves, within a few weeks. Raise a terrific baby Ionides, not a holy terror, follow our recommended diet."

Sorry but I just can't see why you would connect the two. Why would feeding meat or rodents cause a monitor to be aggressive? Think about it, doesn't make any sense.

Even if their going around chasing rodents, they're going to have to chase crickets down as well.

Honestly I could care less what and how you feed your monitors, but you can see how that statement can be misleading. I'll have a holy terror because I'm feeding mice, is what they will think, cause thats exactly how you put it across and what you meant.

Heres the one you just wrote in your post above

"a 100% meat diet is not the best idea for monitor BABIES! BABIES being the key word. at that size, they are naturally built to eat and digest bugs. if, like so many new keepers, you insist on stuffing them with heavy meat, you can very easily run into problems. digestion, attitude, or otherwise.just imagine if you ate a 10 pound pot roast every single night. no veggies, no roughage, just meat meat meat. after a short time, you too would be in less that tip top shape, and you would not be in the best of moods. you belly would feel like a 1000 pound lead weight, and your colon, well, brick worthy.keep some roughage in a baby monitors diet, roaches, crickets, insects, and keep things flowing smoothly, digesting quickly, and you will see better results, and a "happier" monitor."

Now you're saying theyll be aggressive because they're constipated. Thats another assumption that makes no sense to me.Ok so hair offers roughage, why would you need insects for roughage then . Pinkies and fuzzies are almost the same size too. Like I said maybe you can say feed away on pinks but add some insects for roughage That would be more accurate and not misleading.

Robyn,
I realize you probably deal with inexperienced and new keepers all the time, more so than the average person. I'm sure that there are plenty of morons and idiots that you would love to strangle when you hear the things they do. You may think I'm one in fact. But, you don't need to be quite so condescending. I'm doing my best and I feel that I'm doing a pretty good job. I came to this forum and read care sheets like yours so that I could learn. This forum is not intended for advanced keepers only like varanus.net.
I had a simple question and I wanted an opinion from some other more advanced keepers. I appreciate your advice and that of others.
And it's very easy for anything to be taken out of context when you read them and not hear them directly from the mouth. That's the whole problem with type.

Another poster mentioned this already, but i'll add my two cents. I would start feeding with tongs if I were you, my Argus knows what time it is when he sees the tongs. If your feeding with your hands the monitor is associating food in that manner. He's charging out of his hide for a reason, and it sounds to me like he thinks its dinner time, again. Get some tongs your fingers will thank you. Goodluck, Clint

n/p

what is condenscending? it is specifically spelled out on the caresheet, and you came over here, like many before you, and generalized it, and completely missed the point. and apparently still do.

maybe i'm just not in the mood for this anymore, hand holding, pitter pattering, talking sweetly, propping up insecurities, pillowing hurt feelings.

i wasn't being personal or condescending to you at all, i have no idea who you are, or what your experience. it isn't about you, grow some thicker skin, and don't get your feelings hurt.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

np
-----
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

am gonna say somethin to get all you guys to wake up, i cant BELIEVE!!!!! you guys dont have any respect and dont show any for robyn or any of the guys at pro exotics, before pro-exotics when did you guys find better care sheets that were easy to find and straight forward with lots of proof that they work? yes i bet that shut you up!!! you people are SOOOO jealous and wanna prove who knows the best and chuck your monitor experiences in everyones face as you people suffer from a power struggle for knowledge which is common in this hobby worldwide for whos done this , whos got the biggest snake etc that you cant see that proexotics who has put there caresheets to practice and have trialed and errored most of the obvious flaws in modern monitor husbandry and breeding are trying to help you people , but you guys have just too much time on your hands to write these huge posts on stupid things like monitor farts, a wise man once said (Billy Connolly) "THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE TALK ON COMPUTERS IS BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD SPEAK TO THEM IN A FRIGGIN PUB" nothing could be further from the truth, and you people who go on about silly wee details for ages and wont let it drop just to try and make out you know more when you DONT cos this hobby is a constant learning curve, you are the people who sit in your poxy wee flats and dream about having friends other than your scabby wee nile monitors that cant stand you also, next time just relise that when someone like frank or robyn or any other people who have helped you with caring for your monitor is trying to help you THINK before you make yourself look like a fool, i know it will be hard but do it, im only sad that it takes a scottish man who chases haggis's up hills to bring this to your eyes, next time show the Professional monitor breeders a bit more respect and theyll respect you also, enjoy your monitors , and maybe have a good look at the way you keep your animals cos in reality know one has the perfect setup and knows the perfect way to keep these herps as we are still learning
best wishes keith

Heres a link to my favorite FAQ
http://www.varanus.net/faq/

You may also want to consider putting the food in before he/she wakes up in the morning, that way your arrival is not tied to the dinner bell. These are smart animals and a pavlovian response is not out of the question.

Sorry guys,I haven't read the other replies yet.

Here's the deal to your post. There are so many like this.

A monitor is supposed to be a little aggressive. They are supposed to hiss, they are not supposed to like you. If a monitor of mine does not like my fingers and eats mice readily, I call that a monitor that is acting normal.

A diet of all mice is just fine for a sav.

The only deal with savs is that they can get fat, so there is a point where they can eat too much. A lot of that can be alleviated though with proper temps and humidity (not high, not low, good substrate). If you don't know what any of this means, ask.

andrew

A couple of things, first, the best food for your monitor is, mice and insects. Both form a great diet.

A diet of mice, alive or dead, does not make a monitor mean or aggressive, you do, that is plain and simple.

If your monitor is hungry all the time, that is a very very good sign. It means its normal. What you have to understand is, your monitor is telling you its hungry. Whatever you think is meaningless. The monitor is telling you to FEED IT MORE, please listen to your monitor and not your no-nothing brain(thats all of us, me too) When its full, it will tell you that. How, by not eating more. How would you like something in total control of you to feed you a spoonful for a meal? That something surely thought a spoonful was enough.

The main difference with a living animal and a toy is, your suppose to listen to the animal and react to it. The animal is the ultimate instructions, caresheets are nothing more then basic guidelines. I personally would like to see them all (caresheets) burned. Instead, have people actually use their heads and think. Also use their eyes and see.

Please do what your monitor wants and see what happens. If it eats too much, it will tell you that too. FR