Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anybody have any captive care info on MacGregors Bamboo Viper. This is a species I am considering keeping but I want to do my research first and am finding it very hard to get information on this species. What little information I have come across suggests they stress easily and are delicate to keep. Anyone out their with any specific information? Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

MacGregori can probably be treated like most "Tri's" (but hopefully, someone who works specifically with this subspecies can help you out...slight temp variations from what I describe here could be needed). We keep T. albolabris and these snakes are kept in vertically oriented vivaria (a single snake resides in a cage that measures approx. 3'wide x 2'deep x 3' high; that may seem excessive but these arboreal snakes will utilize the space that they are given, plus, the more air space reduces the possibility of a cage overheating). Our cages have a full spectrum light source, a small pro product radiant heat panel connected to a thermostat and a pro product misting system. Our day temps range from the low 70's on the coolest area of the cage to the mid 80's on the warmest area; the basking spot will actually reach the upper 80's and sometimes approach 90 but no higher and only for short periods of time and these snakes will bask under these temps (if you want to play it safe, keep the basking spot no higher than mid to upper 80's to prevent overheating your entire cage). Night temps drop to the low to mid 70's.

Some considerations when working with Tri's is that they dehydrate very easily. We like misting systems because it takes much of the guesswork out of providing for proper humidity and hydration (these snakes will typically not drink from a water bowl, so, daily or twice daily misting is essential). I cannot stress enough how important hydration is for this species. Some keepers will even soak their animals once each week but I have found that as long as you keep them well misted (and, I even use raised large plastic leaves that serve as a "bowl" in which we have actively seen our snakes drinking out of these elevated pools) you should be fine. We use a very fine hardwood mulch (fir, orchid bark, etc.) that serves as a substrata as this can take a lot of misting/moisture and helps to keep those ambient humidity levels at a high level (but we never sacrifice good air flow). Lots of branches, perch dowels, and live plants are incorporated into our exhibits to create a great looking cage but also meeting the secretive needs of these arboreal snakes.

Last, prevent overfeeding as this species can suffer from impaction (along with improper hydration levels); this seem to be the primary killers in captivity. Our large adult albolaris get 2 hoppers per month which is an optimal diet (along with occasional vitamin supplementation). Some keepers feed and then wait for a bowel movement before feeding again; that works well for a species like this that experiences impaction problems.

hope this helps, Rob

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Rob,

Thank you very much for the generous information you provided. As you say I might need to get a few more specifics on T.McGegori in fact the only real information I have had has come from a guy in Germany who keeps many species of Trimeresurus and he has told me that they stress easily and are difficult to keep. However he hasn't provided me with any real specifics as to maintaining them and as you have pointed out their requirements may be similar to those you have Trimeresurus you maintain. Im sure a lot of the information you supplied me with can be applied to Trimeresurus McGregori as well. Once again Rob thank you for your help.

Matt

I’m no expert, but I have a pair of T. Wagleri (Sulawasi) and a single T.W. Sumatran, plus a pair of T. albolabris and a pair of Popes that just gave birth a week ago, so now I have 15 of the Popes. I agree with Carmichael on the misting and general care. I don’t think they are “that” sensitive. The Wagleri have a very slow metabolism and that has to be taken into account. I don’t have the large space Carmichael has, but I wish I did. The Wagler’s are in a 30 gallon and the Popes are in a huge 3x3x4 foot enclosure. Good luck, I know I love my T’s and am looking for a male Sulawasi and more Sumatran.

Hammer,

Thanks for your reply, I have got a book on "Eyelash Vipers" that also has a section on Trimeresurus and I believe they cover the misting/hydration points in their quite well (if my memory serves me correctly). I'm sure your right I hope they are not that "sensitive", I thought the information I was given was that they might become stressed out from you simply walking by their vivarium or something equally innocent. I hope your right about the Trims I can really see myself getting into them. I would like to add that they will be my first serious hot snake, I have previously kept Mangrove Snakes (Boiga Dendrophilia) and I currently keep a collection of Green Tree Pythons (Morelia Viridis)plus many other reptiles over the years. I have recently attended an Applied Herpetology Course here in the U.K which dealt with the keeping of Venomous Snakes and I aim to get training for handling as well. Not that I plan on handling them unless I really have to but it's obviously essential to be able to for occasions when it is neccessary.

Thank's
Matt

hi matt,

respectfully, i feel compelled to suggest you begin with something else. the taxon you're expressing interest in can be gorgeous, etc etc, but honestly, is pretty darn expensive and hard to get; perhaps actually rare?. plus i don't think the consequences of a bite are well-known, let alone husbandry esoterica. why don't you try something like albolabris first? they're also gorgeous, dirt cheap (in case of failure), and available anywhere. also, they can present some realistic hassles, which honestly, you should experience before plunking down real money. arboreals really are a bit harder, it's just that simple. and there's good antivenin for albolabris, polyvalent stuff but actually made from the taxon.

if my experience can help convince you, consider this. i've kept a lot of (venomous) things over about 20 years. i first tried my hand at arboreals about 7-8 years ago. i was pretty successful raising albolabris and borneensis (up to & including reproduction, hey, good times all night long, ha ha ha). then i got some neonate wagleri, because they really appealed to me (2.2 cb from wc females). to cut to the chase, within 14 months all were dead. what eats me up is, if i had it all to do over, i wouldn't change a thing i did. i just don't know what happened. i approach things analytically and with forethought - there were no rookie moves with those wagleri. they just dropped off about quarterly until i was [bleep] out of wagleri. weird as hell, no warning or anything, one day fine, next day on the cage floor. i was only out $220 plus shipping, but i really hate to kill snakes, and i feel that's what happened. on the other hand, if death were fated, i sort of wish it had been something cheaper and easier to get. just think about it. maybe let someone more experienced (and hopefully gifted) buy the mcgregorii you're eyeing, and get some babies from him in 4-5 years.

either way you decide, i'd be glad to share all i know about trimeresurus husbandry. if you're still interested after my little story, that is...

cheers,
jimi gragg

Jimi,

Thank's for your honest reply. Also sorry to hear about your experiences with the Wagleri, I was going to suggest that perhaps they all died on you because they were wild caught and perhaps harbouring some hidden nasty of some kind. I then noted that they were cb, but from a wc female. Perhaps something from the female was passed onto her young? Like you say weird.
Do you have specific information on T.McGregori then? or is it that you just know they are more difficult than say T.Albolabris.
I saw my first T.McGregori in San Diego Zoo back in 1995 and it was a solid Orange colour, I've not seen a snake like it since, it was outstanding. They called it a Batan Viper. I haven't really decided one way or another yet about T.McGregori, like you say it could be an expensive mistake, partially why I signed up to this forum so I could get help from guy's such as yourself Jimmy. I have also been considering different Atheris species but kind of feel that I will be settling for a species that I dont want as much as the McGregori. I appreciate your candour Jimmy and hope to stay in contact with you. Thank You very much.

All The Best
Matt

hi matt,

i have no specific information on mcgregori husbandry. if a guy keeping them says they're challenging, well, he does have some first-hand info. but the reason i suggest another starter arboreal is because they're a little harder than terrestrials in a variety of ways (hydration, ventilation, feeding/defecation, weird veterinary issues, tendency to want to bite you and with the range to pull it off, etc etc). it's easier to mess them or yourself up, and you might as well mess up with something common if you insist.

in fact, i'd suggest you not even begin with an arboreal, but that's just an opinion, and those are abundant here. i'm sure someone will chime in and say an albolabris or schlegelli or squamiger is a fine beginner venomous snake. the thing is, at some point you're going to have to put your hands on or really near the snake, or it will die; that point will likely come sooner with an arboreal, in my experience. things could go south if you haven't logged real time getting to know your animals and how to handle them, and yourself around them. things could always, always go south, who's kidding who, but i think you want to get some time in before swinging for the fences with something like mcgregori. people just getting into this stuff are so often just naively, blithely overambitious; if you live right and have some luck, you have plenty of time, why rush? the snakes will be better off for it, and so will you. just my 2 cents, it isn't personal at all. i just see too many people jumping straight into the deep end, which threatens me and my life-long obsession/hobby, which bugs me. a lot.

again, no hostility is intended, but i have strong feelings on this. i hope you read this note and think about it. whichever way you go, i'll share what i know and i'm sure plenty of others here will say the same. but that's no substitute for face time with the snakes, remember. why don't you start with something like a porthidium ophryomegas or cerrophidion godmani if you "need" an exotic venomous snake? durable, easy, cheap/abundant, attractive, totally neat, probably non-lethal and the stuff at your local hospital will treat a bite. just think about it.

regards,
jimi

Jimi

Once again thanks for your advice you've certainly given me lots to think about. Like you say everyone seems to have an opinion on what to start with and whatever you pick someone somewhere will advise you in another direction. No hostility or offence taken Jimi, in fact I am grateful for your comments.

Thanks
Matt