Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, I would like to aquire antivenom and have it at hand in the event of a bite. Can anyone give me step by step procedures on where to aquire the approriate applications for the proper permits for importing antivenim in the USA and any other permits that may be needed. Also can anyone provide me with the proper websites on each of the agencies if the applications can be acquired online. Also any information that is relavent to my post will be greatly appreciated. This is deadly serious and not an invitation for starting obsurd fights. Sincerely, Tony Baez.

What animals are you looking for antivenin for?
For African animals SAMIR is it, for Asian the Thai Red Cross, for US, look to Wyeth i suppose.

This is just my opinion & do not take offense to it.

I would use S. African polyvalent for any Naja bite (including Asian naja) over Thai Red cross. It works very well.

Has anybody used Thai Red Cross (Naja sp.) A/V, and if so, did you have any reactions to it? Did you require alot of it to be effective? I know every bite is different, and every person will respond differently, but I've never heard from anyone who used it for "any" Naja bite.

Thanks in advance,
Chad

South Africa polyvalent has worked well on the Naja complex in general. But Thai appears to work better on the cardiotoxins in some Naja kaouthia. I have seen reactions to both serums. Thai is not as clean as South Africa and may cause more of a reaction .

Jim Harrison

Jim,

I was just curious what the current price on the SAIMR polyvalent is? The last time I e-mailed them I asked about the poly and Dispholidus mono, and they said the poly was somewhere around $60 a vial and the mono was $250 a vial. I read someone's post recently that said some kind of African poly was as low as $20 a vial, and I'm thinking that is inaccurate. I figured you probably know better than most here. I'm in the process of filling out my IND application and I'd like to have an idea as to what 5 to 10 vials would cost. Also, on top of the price for the AV itself, how much does a private individual end up expending in permit fees and importation fees? Thanks for any help.
-Chance

When we brought in about 200 vials last year of the polyvalent it was $55.00 per vial plus shipping which was around $400.00 for insurance and shipping. Permits for APHIS are now about $90.00 per permit. I believe there is a one time filing fee for IND number but it has been 25 years sense I filed for mine. You have to do a yearly report to be able to keep your IND.

Jim

>>When we brought in about 200 vials last year of the polyvalent it was $55.00 per vial plus shipping which was around $400.00 for insurance and shipping. Permits for APHIS are now about $90.00 per permit. I believe there is a one time filing fee for IND number but it has been 25 years sense I filed for mine. You have to do a yearly report to be able to keep your IND.
>>
>>Jim

Jim

Thanks for all the information. Wow, so $400 alone just to get it here. I had a feeling it would be somewhere along those lines, but didn't know shipping/insurance would be almost as much as the AV itself. I believe I've read where you've said that the SAIMR poly is cross effective against all Asian Naja. Would it be wise to rely on this AV for a N. kaouthia or N. atra bite? I would imagine it would be more effective against the "mostly" nonspitters (I say mostly because both kaouthia and atra have been documented to spit, though neither are fully evolved spitters, but atra is well on its way). I would kind of like to get back into Dendroaspis and try my hand at breeding the greens, as I'm convinced I know what everyone else is doing incorrectly, lol. That is the main reason I'm looking at getting the SAIMR poly, but I will probably acquire more kaouthia and hopefully a couple of atra in the future and would like to be covered on them as well if I could trust it. Anyway, thanks again for all the information so far and anything else you help me with in the future. I guess now the hardest part, besides allotting the funds, is getting a Dr. willing to give me his resume and act as the "responsible" party.
-Chance

The polyvalent has been used with some success on Naja bites and also in lab testing. Specfic is always better. But cross reactions do occur with many antivenoms. If you have any questions feel free to contact us. I will be gone for a 10 days in St Lucia. But when I return give me a call.

Jim Harrison

In the past 5 years I have bred my D. angusticeps 3 times. I have also bred D. viridis once. A friend of mine in Utah bred the angusticeps once by accident. I would hardly call them difficult to breed. 3 or 4 keepers in Florida have also bred D. angusticeps and countless zoos also. You could say they are like corn snakes. What do you think everyone is doing wrong? Probably just inexperienced. Dendroaspis isn't something you just get into. I do not think you can or should just get into and out of them. It is a longterm commitment. It requires thought. I've kept mine for over 10 years. When you say getting back into Dendroaspis, I assume you have kept them before. Which species did you keep?

KRZ is right on the AV prices. This is what it cost me to get mine (im getting more now actually). If you can't afford $400 you certainly cannot afford the hospital bills either if you get bit. SAIMR isn't expensive compared to other av. AV from the Commonwealth is quite pricy. There you are talking about some big bucks. This is why I do not keep Pseudechis. Get the AV before you get the snakes. In addition write up a treatment method so there are no surprises at the doctor.

Be safe,
Jason Basteri

that is correct, I know that factually that all 4 species of mambas have been bred successfully, multiple times....
And yes but the AV first!
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry Phillip
Curator of Reptiles
Black Hills Reptile Gardens

www.reptilegardens.com