Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been trying to figure out this girl since I bought her! I was calling her an IMG but she fits the description of a pastel with out the yellow! She started out life black and gray, a perfect axanthic with the exception of 3 faint horitontal butter yellow stripes! (just to make her more confusing to figure out!) She had one butter yellow stripe on each side and one running down her dorsal. She has green eyes too, just like my pastels. Lots of dorsal blushing. She will be bred to a pastel this year just to try and prove out my theory. They would be het for axanthic to boot. Such a long term project! She is a sweet animal though.

I have 12 eggs in the incubator now that could poss. produce an Axanthic Pastel. I bred a Dbl. Het. female (Jolliff & VPI) to a Pastel that was produced by her. He is 50% PH Jolliff Ax., 50% VPI Ax, & 50% PH Ghost. I have also bred him back to the original Jolliff Ax. female. Time will tell but having him 50% PH for ea. strain is something I'd bet on. I hope it wil be a Pastel w/ a silver stripe down the back & white all the way up to the (darker) vertebral back stripe that is obvious on a Pastel. I may also produce an Axanthic that is homozygous for both strains of Axanthic.?

Its going to be a very cool combination! I posted a few more pics to show kind of a photo history from day one. This is where I'm coming from when I say axanthic pastel. Whatever she is, she is my favorite animal. I am still torn weather I should breed her to a pastel or an albino??? Thats why I'm seeking opinions on her. That het clown is coming in Wednesday. Thanks for your help on that one. Good luck and keep me posted. Bill Lubak

It more of a DMG than IMG snake. I can put money that that snake was completely normal and then one day shed and lost pigments of color , could have happened all at once where overnight it shed and in the morning was black and grey with the faint yellow picgment left on belly and top, and then over time it gained back more and more black pigment in the alien head patterns and now looks like Ralphs Dirty Joe. Last year for some reason I saw and heard of over 20 snakes that did that.
I had a het albino with a friend that did that. Amir from Snakes at Sunset had 4 do that, and many people here had snakes that did that.. One day normal, the next not so normal. Then next shed even less normal, and then one day all black and grey.
Artic/desert ghosts hatch different but not black and grey.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

How do shed patterns figure into those overnight axanthics? I think Ralph Davis told me once that Dirty Joe used to shed clear and patternless but doesn't any more. That's what my reportedly imported girl did - when she was black and white she shed clear but as she has gotten darker and gained the odd yellow she has been picking up more and more dark pigment in the pattern. So, do these ones that suddenly turn axanthic shed clear at any point? Since I don’t know what mine looked like as a hatchling I’m trying to see how she might fit in with other similarly looking snakes out there.

She didn't turn that way at all. She started as an almost ghostly axanthic type hatchling. The next pis show the change taking place and very quickly. IMG is a VERY loose term we all tend to use when we are unsure whats going on with an animal. I have 3 totally different females that have different types of increased melanin taking place with them that I refer to as my "IMG's". If you think about it, most balls exibit certain degrees of increased melanin withn maybe the exception of snows, albinos and clowns. Thats why I was questioning the axanthic pastel thing. Contrary to what some advertisers say, pastels "dirty up", and usually within the first year! The amount of yellow retained makes for the more popular animal. Most of those screamin yellow baby normals turn into average adults once they grow and darken. Kinda like what happened to this girl. I don't think an axanthic pastel will be a "clean" gray and black. I think it will lso dirty up, but instead of that rusty orange exhibited by the pastels, it would have more of a charcoal "dirt".The eye color and the amount of blushing also were unique. She does show faint pattern in her sheds. I know she is not an "Arctic". The closest thing I've seen to her is Ralph's "Dirty Joe". Her color change seems to of stabilized now. I can't wait until she's big enough to breed, maybe by the fall. Only time will tell. All this is just my theory, but I don't think it's without substance. After all, don't new theories pave the way to new discoveries!

I think in another post you where talking about this animal (right?) when you wrote:

"She was a captive born from NERD and was a co-dominant "leftover"."

Do you know if she was born black and white? How big was she when you got her? Care to elaborate on her parentage? Are you saying she was a "normal" from something like a pastel or spider breeding?

I was also wondering if all of those ones that suddenly turned axanthic looking last year ever had patternless sheds.

The other "IMG" is the one that was a captive born. The one in these photos was a neonate wild caught. The other "IMG" was in a bin with like 17 other co dom siblings from either spider or Mohave or pastel breedings. My friend noticed that this one looked "different and purchased the whole bin for $200! I'm working with 3 different IMG types.

n/p

Here is the second photo as she's going through her color change.

The open wounds near the tail back up the reasoning for the IMG/DMG/Arctic pigmentation (or lack of). It is apparently caused by the animal being covered in regurgitation or an abnormally greasy defecation I have witnessed from animals being fed very obese (prob. diabetic) mice. The gastric juices eat away at the animals skin layers and cause the animal to go into shed. When the shed occurs, the animal will have undergone a partial or total change in appearance. Open wounds typically appear after this process. I lost an animal before it had a chance to shed so it is not something you want to transpire. The animals typically have a yellowish vertebral stripe. A few breeders know this "mutation" as "the sh*t snake" as it not genetic - LOL.

The dealer told me it was a "bad shed" but it looked more like a burn from a heating device. A bit of neosporin and she healed up nicely. Well I guess I asked for opinions and you know what they say about them! LOL

I had an 02 female ball that went into a normal shedding process back in the fall of 2002. After her shed I had noticed that she was covered with open wounds and had shed off all the layers of skin. As with others neosporin healed the wounds but my question to all would be , " Why in the world would you breed any snake like this to prove out genetic defects?" you should not breed any of these snakes into your healthy lines.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike King
MK Reptiles

Mike , did any one say the injury was a genetic defect? This forum is unbelievable at times. You try and share pics of your future projects and everyone has something negative to throw in! Why wouldn't you breed a one of a kind animal????? I've been offered 5G for this girl and won't sell. 2 cents? Why do I even bother replying to these things????

There was actually a corn snake line where I think a genetic defect was found (possibly even sex linked) that resulted in some females that would spontaneously develop sores and scar white. The general opinion was that the animals suffer under this condition and it shouldn't be reproduced. I don't know if this is going on with any of the ball lines but some initial breeding would be needed to figure it out. I think there have been plenty of animals with this look that aren't associated with sores so it's too early to be sure if any of them are going to be an inhumane genetic trait.

I def. don't think it is something that will cause harm to any of your other snakes. I believe it was just a "upset stomach" type deal nothing contagious or hereditary. I would sell her for 5K if you can.....interesting looking animal though. Didn't mean to offend you....good luck

I think its going to be a great ingredient for a future project but only time will tell! I was going to breed her to a pastel in the fall but I think that I am going to breed her to the albino instead. If she is a type of pastel, it will prove out either way. And then if the axanthic in her proves out, she may make some different snows. No offense taken. Got the male het clown today and compared him with the pictures you sent and he checks out. Thanks and good luck with your projects. Bill

Pastels clean up all the alien heads within the bands. That's why the axanthic Pastel is going to look so cool. It will be such a clean grey, black, and white-looking snake. I can't wait until someone does it!

Cool looking IMG though.