Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi folks, I did an internet search for kingsnake and I landed here. So I guess I'll tell you how I came across the snakes.

In 27 years in Napa I'd never caught one kingsnake intil a couple days ago while turkey hunting on my Aunt's property. (I'll bet the non-native Rio Grande turkeys are eating some of our native snakes.) A dark black king with broken white bands came cruising right up to me while I sitting under a tree. It's about 2 1/2 feet long and was quite docile when I picked it up. I wanted to show it to my Aunt and she asked me to keep it for a few days until a photo shoot.

Yesterday, just a couple days after catching the first one, I found a second one on the other side of town at my Grandad's place. (What are the odds of that happening!?!) It's dark brown with complete bands and probably over three feet long. I kept it also, in case I now have a breeding pair.

So now the questions: How do I find out their sex? Spring came early here this year, is it still breeding season? Is it possible one or both could be gravid? Maybe a captive breeding program exists for releasing the young back into the wild??? How long should I wait before feeding them? Should they have heat pads? (nightime indoor temps in the mid 60s.)

Most of my experience is with a boa that I had for a few years and kept very healthy. Too healthy actually, she outgrew my closet cage in half the expected time, before I could move out. So I gave her to someone who lets her have her own room.

I know I need to keep kings seperated. The bigger one is in a rubbermade tub with a weighted screen over it until I get my other terrarium ou of storage. I want to eventually release them right back where I found them. I just need to figure out if I should try to breed them first, give them to someone with a breeding program, or just release them after taking pictures and showing the neighbors kids that these are the "good guys."

Any advice is appreciated.

and I zapped this message over to there as well. Any advice is still appreciated. Thanks.

Enjoy them and let em go is my recommendation. Why breed them? are you going to sell them or raise huge numbers of snakes for pets? Herp lovers are first inclined to keep and breed only to find that the joy of finding them exceeds these lessor joys.

My two cents,
Dr. G.

I agree with you that it is most enjoyable to observe them in the wild. I want to do what is best for the species because they are not very common here anymore. It would be great if I could locate someone in my area who is more knowledgeable with kingsnakes and interested in sexing and breeding them, if that is the best course of action. If not, I'll gladly return them to their original homes.

That is illegal in many states. I don't know if it is illegal there, but once an animal is captive, it must remain captive as well as any offspring produced in captivity.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

If you steal in hunger, I will kick you when you try. These stand for me. Name your god and bleed the freak. I'd like to see. How you all would bleed for me.-Alice In Chains

Unless you have a valid fishing license, you've poached 2 snakes. I'd take the pics and let them go.

If you're interested in CA herp regs, cgee.hamline.edu/frogs/science/StateA&R.pdf and scroll halfway down. I don't think it'd be worth the money for the permit, nor the effort required, to breed them. Under the auspices of a fishing license, you can possess only 4; if yours were to breed, you have to get rid of the babies that are over the limit.

California has some bizarre regs when it comes to their reptiles. I think their intentions were good, but they went overboard.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

and I see a lot of reptiles along N. Cal's lake and stream banks while I'm hookin' and cookin'. (Mostly hatchery raised trout and salmon.) Especially around steep rocky areas, trout are below, crotalus, pituophis, and sceloporus above.

Also, releasing the babies would be the main reason for breeding them.

>>Also, releasing the babies would be the main reason for breeding them.

That's probably illegal in CA as well, unless you get authorization from the fish-n-game folks. It's illegal in many, if not most, states, due to the potential for introducing pathogens acquired in captivity to existing populations (a la desert tortoise scenario).

There's no shortage of Cal kings, so you'd be doing an awful lot of work for a negligible impact on the wild population (but you would probably get a lot of personal enjoyment from the process.)

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Reading your postings it is clear you are a good guy seeking to do what is best. Keep one or both of the kings if you want to enjoy them and leave any new finds in the wild. It is a good moderate approach and balances the passion most of us have with good conservation.

Good luck with rod and reel and keep your eyes peeled for the herps.

Best wishes,
Dr. G

Hi Mountain Lyon -
First off, it's technically illegal for you to release the two Cal Kings you collected. It is technically illegal in California to pick a snake up on one side of the road and release him on the other side. That is stretching it, but it technically is illegal. Releasing w/c and/or captive bred native reptiles in California is Illegal. If you don't have a commercial California Propagation permit with the kingsnakes you have listed on it, you can only donate it to someone. You cannot sell and/or trade(barter) them without a commercial California progation permit with them listed on it. It is possible if both or either of the kingsnakes is female that she is gravid. If she is gravid and she lays eggs and the eggs hatch, you have 45 days to donate the babies. You cannot sell the babies unless you have a permit.
Now the permit. You need a permit in California to captive breed native reptiles and amphibians. Not all are listed so you can't breed all of the species. You need to get the permit in the years that you intend to breed them. You have to list them on the application which becomes the permit each snake you intend to breed. If you are going to breed the Cal Kings, get the permit the year you are going to breed them. Check both commercial and noncommercial boxes on the application. Commercial permits allow you to possess more of the progeny and more w/c breeders, etc. You can only sell the babies if you check and get the commercial permit. You can breed the kings with a noncommercial permit, but you have to donate the babies. My partner has a California permit. They are about $50 per year right now. They aren't as hard to fill out and get the permit as people seem to say. You do need to know a few of the things that are required and they are looking for. If you have any questions concerning the permit or kingsnakes, send me an email through this post. I would rather not post any more things about California Laws and Regulations on a public forum. Fish and Game Dept. from most states browse these forums.

Terry Parks

Boy, I'll bet you're sorry you asked!

As you have doubtless read, it is not wise (or technically legal) to release animals into the wild after even a short stint in captivity. Rather than being a bit of willy-nilly beaureaucratic nonsense, this is to prevent the spread of pathogens. Cryptosporidium can wipe out entire colonies of otherwise healthy animals. If you have cats around, you have higher concentrations of crypto on your hand than a snake would encounter in the wild, hence, caution is advised. The stress of captivity lowers their resistance, so you could conceivably relaese an animal that LOOKS healthy, but could nonetheless infect everything it comes into contact with. An ounce of prevention...

Then there are the breeding inssues, which by now you have also gotten an eyeful of. Plus, sexing a snake is a delicate process and should not be undertaken without supervision, notwithstanding the legalities inherent in even considering a breeding program.

With a $25.00 fishing license you you can keep the animals you have as long as you wish. Then you can freely show them around and foster the very noble cause you propose.

Regards.

I guess it falls under the "good thought, bad idea" catagory. Sorry I've been away from the computer for a couple days and couldn't update you. I released the more recently caught one the day after I caught it. It was nowhere near any domestic animals or other herps in the day that I had it.

I planned to release the other one as well but it escaped a well taped up cardbard box during transport, by wedging open the glued bottom seam of the box. It spent a couple hours inside the bottom of the driver seat where I could see it but couldn't reach it until it moved later. I took it as an indication that it would like to stay.

After reading the informative responses here, I realized I shouldn't have caught, or released, either of them! Now I know, and now I have a one pet native king.