Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have made some harnesses for my nile to take walks on but he outgrows them or they get ratty...What is the best kind of harness I can use? When he was small he could be carried easily but he's getting heavy and wants to get down all the time.

Please, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Gigi

I don't think that monitors like to go for 'walks'.... I would guess the whole time you have him outside, he's just going to try to escape at every opportunity, and you'll end up "dragging" him along, as opposed to him walking contently alongside of you...

Putting a harness on a reptile is a very stressful ordeal- would a person enjoy being pinned down and restrained while a bigger animal put something on their body which makes them feel uncomfortable???

I don't think monitors or reptiles for that matter, should be taken outside for 'walks'. In reality, the animal doesn't enjoy it, it is merely for the person's satisfaction of "showing their beast off"..

Besides, of all the people I know who have tried this leash/harness thing, 90 percent of them had their animals squeeze and writhe and escape from it...some were never retrieved..

In my opinion, I just think it is a bad idea, and very stressful on the animal...

bob

The Odatriad

I want to address this post in sections, so please bear with me, this will be long...

"I don't think that monitors like to go for 'walks'.... I would guess the whole time you have him outside, he's just going to try to escape at every opportunity, and you'll end up "dragging" him along, as opposed to him walking contently alongside of you... "

This is not the case. My nile enjoys going outside and riding in the car. He enjoys being touched and held but enjoys walking and exploring for himself. I do not want him to be unrestrained as that is more dangerous than keeping him on a leash. If he wants to walk, we walk, if he wants to lay down, we stop. If he wants to dig and rub in the dirt, I stand there and let him do his thing...it's a regular ritual with us.

"Putting a harness on a reptile is a very stressful ordeal- would a person enjoy being pinned down and restrained while a bigger animal put something on their body which makes them feel uncomfortable??? "

I have never once forced my nile to do anything. If he resists, I let him calm and try again. If it's still a no-go, then I stop. I would never make him do something like take a walk if he didn't enjoy it. I don't think he regards me as a threat. I've never been slapped, bitten or treated with aggression because I have never put him in an uncomfortable situation to demand such behavior. I was interested in what would be the LEAST stressful to use as far as harnesses go. I wasn't planning on leaving it on him 24/7. Only to be used when we go outside. There are days when he does not want to go out and there are days where he's at the front door clawing the weather stripping off with determination.

"I don't think monitors or reptiles for that matter, should be taken outside for 'walks'. In reality, the animal doesn't enjoy it, it is merely for the person's satisfaction of "showing their beast off".. "

I am not an attention monger, I am not looking to show off or any other arrogant thing such as that. I travel and stay with friends and family from time to time and my nile and my Blue & Gold macaw go with me whenever I go. I can't just let the nile sit there without any restraint. I do not want him to be injured while I'm out. He DOES enjoy it or I wouldn't take him. It's not like I take him to work or anything...and as far as not taking walks...perhaps you should take this issue up with a variety of vets as I have had 3 of them tell me to take him out in the yard and let him get natural sunlight as often as possible.

My Nile has a regular ritual that I am only happy to oblige. We strap on a harness and head out into the yard. We walk to the end of the driveway and he likes to dig in the fresh warm gravel we have for our new driveway. After he gets bored doing that, he makes his way down the side of the house and likes to dig in the fresh dirt from our landscaping projects. Sometimes he will spend a half hour or more rubbing and scratching and relaxing in the bright sun taking a break sometimes to investigate the many holes and plants and has even been known to hunt the occasional anole or other creepy crawly he stirs up in his digging. Then he likes to go to the back yard and we sit under the umbrella in a chair and he will plop down in the grass and sleep for a little while and relax while I read, all 4 legs tucked against his body, fully trusting and totally relaxed. When he gets tired of that, he makes his way to the steps and goes up to the big water bowl I have set out for our other animals (15 gallon container that was a barrel bottom cut off so it's 6 inches deep) and gets a drink (and sometimes crawls into the bowl for a quick dip if the kiddie pool is not set up) and then he gets in the shade. That's my cue to pick him up and head inside.

I would never force him to go for a walk. It's not like I take him jogging or anything like that. I'm not looking to make myself popular by having him out, I'm simply looking to keep him safe in our excursions. He likes to ride in the car as he will crawl into my lap and lay down or he likes to crawl into the back window and sprawl out for a quick warm up. My windows are tinted and it's a caddie with the wide deep back window ledge and wrap around shield so don't preach about how I'm roasting him for the sake of getting attention from the drivers behind me.

I am not asking to be criticized for a situation you don't understand (thus the long explanation so there is no confusion from future responses), I only wanted to know what the safest, most reliable and most comfortable harness I could use for him so HE will be safe. You are entitled to your opinions and I respect that, don't get me wrong...but every situation is not the same. I'd rather take him with me when I go than leave him couped up in a cage to get bored. He is not furniture. He is not a fixture or an attention ploy. He is a member of my family as much as my husband, son, cats, birds, etc. Why shouldn't he be treated as such? We take him with us on picnics in the park once in a while and he loves it. He gets his own plate of food and loves investigating his surroundings. I think it's cruel to keep an animal penned up and not let them have a somewhat normal life, and part of his life would be investigating, sniffing, tasting, basking, swimming and breathing fresh air and enjoying the sun...so why shouldn't he have it?

"Besides, of all the people I know who have tried this leash/harness thing, 90 percent of them had their animals squeeze and writhe and escape from it...some were never retrieved.. "

Perhaps I am one of the lucky 10% then...I'm not planning on staking him out in the yard for hours on end...I just want him to have some freedom and not always have to be retricted to being held or carried.

"In my opinion, I just think it is a bad idea, and very stressful on the animal... "

I appreciate your opinion or I would not have asked, but understand this...I am not saying this is for everyone who has a reptile...but it works for me and my nile very nicely.

So...with all that said...

I went to our local pet store and they had a variety of harnesses and the sales person who was not very knowlegable as far as reptiles go, much less large lizards...told me to use a nylon harness with plastic clips on it. I bought one and adjusted it to fit comfotably and it worked just great...however, after a few minutes in the sun, the plastic clips became SO HOT I had to take it off of him. The clips are black and absorb the heat. I didn't want it to burn him or become uncomfotable but I don't know what other kind of harness is available...anyone have a suggestion?

Gigi

What does your nile enjoy more, the bushes or the trees?

His claws are kept clipped real smooth so he doesn't get much traction with them on tree bark but the bushes are more like a jungle gym to him so he's in them if he can reach them.

He was stomping through the grass the other day and decided he wanted to get in a small bush we have and he spotted an anole and lost his mind trying to catch it and it took me forever to untangle his leash from the bush. He never did catch the little guy either.

"Would a person enjoy being pinned down and restrained while a bigger animal put something on their body which makes them feel uncomfortable???"

This reminds me so much of me preparing my dog to go outside that it's not even funny. Of course, she's the one dragging me around.

Anyway, there's a difference between wanting to safely take a large monitor outside and attempting to drag it around places to show it off. As long as a person has the right sort of idea, it shouldn't be a taboo subject.
-----
Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

hey "Sir Robert of Westbury" (wink):

my name's rick. you know me. anyway, that leash thing aint completely true. my V. Albigularis takes to his leash just fine. actually, he doesnt try to escape at all. perhaps my lizard is just tame, but more often than not he tends to stay right near me, if not actually on me when i bring him outside. i usually sit on the ground near him when im outside with him, and, more often than not, before he gets beyond the leash's reach he'll turn around and come back to chill on me/near me.
though i will say that the other herps i've owned this has not been common behavior. i dunno, perhaps it's just this one monitor.. but regardless, it doesnt seem Vic. is botherd by his leash at all anytime i bring him outside... he's just happy to be outside in general. I guess trust in me is the reason, like, he knows he's safe when he's with/near me.

peace bro.

You can have a monitor and no vehicles, dogs, or people are within site while being yet they cannot get away by some chance, then you will need to start with a soft but tight fitting harness (most are made for other animals so its hard to find any that fit correctly). You have to gauge the way your monitor reacts to the harness and being outdoors as such to decide whether it is doing any good for it to be there.
I have 2 monitors that go outside and do not need a harness, both being my large albigs, but they took time and patience as well as earning their trust to be able to do so. I use 2 areas my backyard, and a nearby resevoir park that has alot of open area, rarely a person anywhere, they allow pets, and cars etc are far away so as to prevent destractions.

I wish I could take him out without a harness...that would be ideal. We are in the process of planning out his outside enclosure and hopefully when we finish our other projects we can get it made. I found some great plans and ideas for a good outdoor enclosure but it's gonna have to wait behind the other things we have going for now.

Gigi

If you go on the Tegu forum, look for some posts from Rollin. He has large, tame tegus and has designed a very simple hip leash that works very well to keep from losing a lizard, but is not cumbersome at all. It's basically a sturdy, soft cord with a barrel spring clasp like you would use on the strings of a jacket. I made three in about 10 minutes, and, while my tegus are small, I used one on the 2 foot savannah I rescued (before he rehabbed enough to act like a monitor!!) to safely take him out for some natural sunlight. He didn't mind it at all, and it is fully adjustable to make sure that it is not tight, but the design does not allow him to slip out, as it is around his hips between the front and back legs. Check it out and see if that may meet your needs.

Leslie

That is great! Thanks! I made a similar design but it went around the shoulders and chest like a vest, is it better to put the focus on the rear legs than the front?

Gigi

Hi Gigi, I swear I have. I really am not here to pick on you. I am here to try and understand.

The problem as I see it and surely its my problem, not yours, Is, you may not understand what a monitor is. Remember, I said, may.

There are many kinds of people who enjoy monitors here on this forum. There are field biologists, there are breeders, hobbyist, and of course those who wish for an odd pet. I have nothing against any of them.

The common view from biologist is, monitors should not be commonly kept in captivity, because in their minds, the ones they see in captivity do not resemble the monitors in nature. I agree in a way. They mostly have no other reasons or understanding of why.

Then there are breeders, they often wonder what the heck people are doing to not allow their monitors to grow or breed. It "must" be the owners have a complete misunderstanding of what monitors need. Because once you give them what they need(basic requirements) they breed like chickens or mice, not quite crickets. But almost.

Then you have hobbyist who think to get a monitor to breed or gorw or do something special, means you have to do something "special", something more.

Then you have folks like you seem to be(forgive me for judging) who want to make a monitor into a dog or something its "really" not.

I guess folks have the right to do and think whatever they want. But, I really feel their is one major misunderstanding. And that is, monitors are the ultimate reptile, that means, their behavior, actions and abilities are directly controlled by their envoirnment(temps and much more)

Monitors are like a car with a manual tranny. There are many gears. The enviornment controls what gears the monitor uses. In nature, monitors use all of their gears, all the time. They mostly idle in neutral. That way, they conserve preious energy. They use first and second gear, when in their burrows and logs, which is most of their life. Then they use third thru overdrive to go about the major tasks of their lifes. Third gear is often used to walk around and run to and away from things. Fourth and overdrive is often used to accomplish major metabolic tasks like, develop eggs, heal wounds, grow, shed, avoid desease and lastly digest larger meals. I also feel its where the immune system is developed and other critical events like placing calicum occurs.

The problem if I am right is, many judge their animals on one gear. To me, a monitor is only a monitor if its allowed to reach all its gears. You can judge a dog or bird because they are warm blooded and that is the major difference. Monitors are not and do different things at different temps.

When they do that, then and only then can they be judged. I do not think monitors(in all their gears) are mean and nasty, they seem to love anything that entertains them. They surely get over their fear of humans very quickly, even in nature. So being a monitor does not mean they do not become tame, at at all.

But when they are a monitor(in all their gears) They do seem to have a different personality. They are very curious and very bull headed(everything is on their terms) They are also very sensitive to the touch. Touch is how they comunicate(to eachother and the world) Most of all, they are totally pocessive. And fight to keep what is theirs.

With that said, its my view that monitors do not even let a fly sit on them, muchless a harness. When(and I have tried) I put a harness(or anything for that matter) on them. All they do is try to get it off. They will spend hours, days, weeks, whatever it takes to get it off.

I will say, when in first gear, they could careless.

Now this is for FYI. I have been on this board for a very long time now(i am so ashamed) And Pet monitors like yours have come and gone. And that last part is the sad part, they have mostly died and died at a medium age. 4 to 8 years seems to be in the ballpark.

All of their owners were adament about how well there monitors were doing, then boom, the monitors died and the owners were gone.

Please forgive me but, I must also include, that most of the monitors have died, not just "Pet" ones. So Please understand the context.

As a breeder, I was accused of killing my monitors because they often multiclutched, had lites on 24/7, etc. Yet, I have many old monitors, some over twenty years old. Even tiny ones that are very old, up to 15 years old.

Off course I have murdered many thru my ignorance. This may shock a few people, but I had to learn, just like everyone else.

I do have questions, how do you know all the stuff you know? like how do you know what a monitor loves/likes, etc. Or is happy, unhappy, thrilled, etc??? The reason I ask is, that is very difficult think to know. Specially when they do not get out of first gear. Or if they are not in the context they are designed for.

Please do not take this wrong, its only about my opinion and my lack of understanding, so help me understand. FR

"Then you have folks like you seem to be(forgive me for judging) who want to make a monitor into a dog or something its "really" not."

I am not offended at all by your post, let me get that out of the way right up front but I do have a few things to ask/say...

When my husband gave me Angus 3 1/2 years ago, I honestly can say we knew enough about monitors to keep him alive and that was about it. We've had other reptiles all our lives but Angus is our first monitor. In no way do I proclaim to be an expert on anything that will fit into any of the message boards you can find here! We knew what we were getting ourselves into, so to speak, but we didn't know all we should have known before buying him.

Since then, we have done our best to become proficient at keeping Angus healthy and happy ( and we have made our share of mistakes, to be truthful)but it was never a case of we wanted some kinds of weird conversation piece. We've always been animal people, exotics have always held a special interest for us. I am a licensed wildlife rehabber specializing in birds and small mammals, but we always had a love of reptiles.

I never wanted to be one of those people that had 200 different herps just so we could say "Look what we have!" like so many people do. We got Angus when he was but 3 or 4 days old and decided instead of having many living comfotably, we'd focus on making one very comfortable. I have no interest in breeding them or even getting another one as long as we have Angus.

I never intended to make him into a lap dog. Honestly. He was intended to stay in his tank/enclosure and be viewed, etc. It never works that way. I have a bad habit of absolutely spoiling my animals. My "pets" get better attention than most people's kids I'm sorry to say...it's a maternal thing I guess, I am mommy to many species. When Angus was very young he got injured through stupidity on my part and I overcompensated by hovering over him night and day and trying to make things right more in my mind than anything else...and in doing so, I guess, I spoiled him rotten.

Some would say that is a good thing and then some would say I ruined him and made him a lesser creature by doing so. The way I look at it is this. I made the commitment to take him into my home and make him a member of the family, so he is here to stay. When he was hurt, we paid the vet bills and didn't say, "oh well, it's just a $35 lizard...", when he got an attitude as a youngster, instead of saying "I won't touch him anymore because he's a turd" we said lets get him secure with us so this doesn't happen again. I looked at it like it was better to have him passive and socially retarded (compared to a wild Nile), than to have a crazy wild and aggressive potentially dangerous animal in our house.

I admit, he is and always will be a wild animal. Just because he tolerates us and allows us to handle him and puts up with the other animals does not make him a puppy. BUT...at the same time, I refuse to give up on a "pet" and will do anything I can to make them comfy and fit in with the rest of his household even if they aren't natural allies. We never lose sight of the fact that he could do harm with little or no effort, but hope that he never gets to the point that he feels he has to.

"I guess folks have the right to do and think whatever they want. But, I really feel their is one major misunderstanding. And that is, monitors are the ultimate reptile, that means, their behavior, actions and abilities are directly controlled by their envoirnment(temps and much more)"

You are correct. I agree 100%. Again. I spoil my "kids" regardless of what they are...and that is my weakness. Not many Niles have a sleeping bag and personalized hammock, and not many Niles get back rubs, and not many Niles are hand fed chunks of steak and salmon...but does it really diminish what he is? Is he any less of a Nile for my stupid hangups?

"Monitors are like a car with a manual tranny. There are many gears. The enviornment controls what gears the monitor uses. In nature, monitors use all of their gears, all the time...

The problem if I am right is, many judge their animals on one gear. To me, a monitor is only a monitor if its allowed to reach all its gears. You can judge a dog or bird because they are warm blooded and that is the major difference. Monitors are not and do different things at different temps."

Again, I agree with you, but is he worse off being pampered and spoiled rotten by me, or by being neglected and slowly killed by someone less inclined to make the necessary sacrifices to keep an animal like this healthy and happy? Would he be better off in some college kids dorm to be an ornament that gets shoved in everyones face as a reaction getter and then tossed aside when the novelty is gone? I do not think that just anyone should be able to walk in and buy an animal that requires special care. They are not dogs or cats. You have to take time to educate yourself as well as those around you to make sure everyone is safe and happy.

In the long run, it's a case f what's the lesser of 2 evils. an overindulging doting mommy or a neglectful shock enthusias kid...by rights, it should be neither. But I won't complain. My guy is happy, and I feel sorry for the ones who aren't.

"With that said, its my view that monitors do not even let a fly sit on them, muchless a harness. When(and I have tried) I put a harness(or anything for that matter) on them. All they do is try to get it off. They will spend hours, days, weeks, whatever it takes to get it off."

I have to disagree here. Maybe I got lucky and got the mutant monitor with no hangups...I dunno what the case is, but I have never had any major rebellion go on. I have never seen him get weird about a harness or collar or the stupid little biker vest I made for him, or the cat laying on top of him, or the bird picking up the end of his tail and trying to walk away with it not realizing it was attached to something with teeth...he is just...well adjusted. He really doesn't mind much of anything. Believe me, if he doesn't like something, it is well known. He is very opinionated and will let you know if he doesn't like something.

"I will say, when in first gear, they could careless. "

Maybe his tranny is stuck. He is always laid back.

"I do have questions, how do you know all the stuff you know? like how do you know what a monitor loves/likes, etc. Or is happy, unhappy, thrilled, etc??? The reason I ask is, that is very difficult think to know. Specially when they do not get out of first gear. Or if they are not in the context they are designed for. "

That is a very good question. I have a rather disappointingly inaccurate answer to try to pass off as a reason. (grin)

I don't know.

I can only speculate based on body language, temperment, reaction to his surroundings, etc. When I walk into the kitchen. Angus will follow me in there and plop on the floor and watch. If I dig in the fridge and start cooking, he will ooch closer and just lay there and watch. I offer him a taste of something, he will take it and come back for more if he likes it, or drop it and walk away if he doesn't.

When my son comes home from school, Angus will get up and follow him to his room and flop on the floor near his table while he does his homework. When he leaves his room, Angus will go about his own thing and often return to his crate and lay under his UV light. The cats will get in his crate and sprawl out under the hot light and he doesn't flinch, get weird, slap or act up. He will either move over and get out of their way or he will wait for them to get situated and then climb right up on top and resume basking.

Often he will show interest in things we do and we encourage it. If he investigates something unknown, rarely will he give it a second thought when it reoccurs. For example...we are in the middle of doing house renovations. The first time my husband air compressor kicked in, poor angus almost jumped out of his skin. He scrambled across the floor and wedged his big butt under the couch and wouldn't come out. After the compressor cycled and turned off, he came out and investigated the alien with the loud voice. after he realized it wasn't going to get him, he doesn't even blink when it goes off.

He seems to take a liking to children as he follows my son and his friends all over the house. Not jogging playfully behind like a dog, but he'll mosey into the room, stomp through their army men, climb into the bed, flop across the video game console while they're trying to play...he seems to put himself in the direct path of them just to get the attention. If you ignore him, he'll go away and not return. If you make a fuss and pick him up and talk to him and pay a little attention to his effortsm he'll keep coming back time and time again. He can't seem to get enough.

In my opinion, all of these things tell me what he likes and dislikes. It's all common sense. I know he LOVES cheese...he'll rob you of your pizza if you give him a chance...he has no fear. He is bold, intelligent and non-compromising in any situation that doesn't suit his needs. He knows what is not allowed and gets sneaky when he tries to do it again. He knows I don't want him in the kitchen cabinets...I put a long spoon in the handles to keep him from opening them up and pulling all the junk out. If I'm poking through the cabinets and have the spoon out of the handles, he will distract me with knocking everything off the end table and when I go to pick it up, guess where he is...back in the cabinet.

If I had the chance to have another Nile, I'd probably turn it down because it would be greatly diminished by the experience I have had with Angus. I never at any time wanted to give the impresion that I am the monitor whisperer...that's not it at all. I simply wanted to share my extraordinary little guy with those who share a love for animals and hoped to hear some other stories similar to my own but sadly I have only heard of problematic and difficult situations...and when I tell my story no one ever believs me...and that hurts. Even my vet didn't believe he was as docile and compliant as I said until he met him and he was AMAZED...I am not trying to appear as a know it all, because I only know enough to be good to my boy, I can't speak for others...I am always open for suggestions and comments.

Gigi

Sorry I'm so long winded...I just love my Angus and want to share him with the world!

Hey Gigi, looks like you have that one in 1 million monitor.

Even my best dog would hate having a biker vest on. Looks like you got your very own dress up snoopy doll. Have fun!

Well as for it being tame, following you around etc. I must say that does not bother me.

But if it is living in a crate,and it's cage is your home. that does bother me. You can't treat it as a mammal. It is a reptile and should be treated as such. It has needs and those needs must be met.

I wonder if those needs were met and offered if you'd have the same monitor you do now? I wonder if you prefer to keep him as is, or to allow him to have more of what he needs even if this means he would no longer be the pet he is now.

Posted by: JPsShadow at Sat May 8 23:51:12 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

"Well as for it being tame, following you around etc. I must say that does not bother me.

But if it is living in a crate,and it's cage is your home. that does bother me. You can't treat it as a mammal. It is a reptile and should be treated as such. It has needs and those needs must be met. "

Perhaps you didn't pay attention to the first post you flamed me on, it was later deleted by the moderators of this message board.

The crate is a large dog kennel in the livingroom with a UV light and his pillow inside it, it is one of his many oasis' around our house. He does not get locked in it...it is just a quiet corner dedicated to his comfort. He has his own room with climbing branches, a big bath tub for soaking and a set of heat/uv lights. It has a dirt pit and lots of outdoorsy things for his interest. He spends a lot of time in there and is (seemingly) happy with it. He gets live food to hunt (in his room) and always has the option of live fish, to take as he wants from his pool. He SEEMS to be content to be the animal planet typical monitor while in his room and happy to be the socially adjusted couch potato in the livingroom...when he gets tired of us, he goes to his room.

"I wonder if those needs were met and offered if you'd have the same monitor you do now?"

I will not even pretend to understand what it is you are trying to say...he is offered and provided with everything he could need.

"I wonder if you prefer to keep him as is, or to allow him to have more of what he needs even if this means he would no longer be the pet he is now."

How he "is", is only a result of love. I would never try to manipulate him into something he is not..they are too strong willed to be "turned" into something else. I do not for the life of me understand what your malfunction is with my posts but you always seem to find something negative to say. Have I offended you in a past life or something?

I'm only trying to make him happy...and he seems to be. Is that so bad?

In a past message I mentioned we just bought our house and are in the process of making his outdoor play area complete with stocked fish pool and grassy areas and plenty of dirt to root around in. I'd have to say that he is being given everything he could ever want. He has no enemies, he is safe, he is always fed, he is healthy and above all, he is loved.

Does anyone else feel like this is poor treatment or a bad environment? I'd really like to know...

I was hoping you would see thru all the window dressing I used in the my first post. The point of the first post is. Houses are not suitable for monitor cages and have caused monitors to live a short life.

If your house was hot enough, you would not live in it. If you check all the care sheets, you would see, hot spots of, 110F to 150F, I belief, 135F is minimum. While you may provide a hot spot, in order to make it usable, at least one room in your house would be an oven. But the heat is not the real problem.

The real killer is most likely dehydration. This is the focal point for good husbandry. If it was humid enough in your house, your house would be destroyed. In fact, most normal cages, wood, melimine, etc, are quickly destroyed by the moisture needs of monitors.

Try thinking in this way, if you were into plants and wanted a greenhouse. Would you simply put plants all over your house and soak and spray them? If you did, again your house would be destroyed. With monitors, it would be the same as a greenhouse, only hotter. This heat is would you could not live in.

Remember, Niles are "water" monitors(rapairian, mesic) and live in and around high humidity. If it becomes dry out, they burrow and stay in high humidity burrows(banks of rivers) This goes for all monitors, they only use the surface if the humidity is sufficient. If not, they burrow to where it is. I don't remember if you have a Sav or a nile, it really does not matter.

There have been several stories like yours, all were "mothering" type keepers. Please remember, you are the monitors keeper, not its mother. So far, the monitors all died.

Again I will say, 5 or 6 years of relative freedom like your providing may indeed be better then 10 or 15 years couped up in an awful cage.

My only concern is to make you aware of the possibilities. I have now done that. So my task is over. I wish you all the luck and love in the world.

One last thing. You seem misinformed about breeding monitors. Monitors are designed to breed, their physical makeup and behavioral makeup is all base on allowing reproduction. In other words, thats what the are designed to do. They pair up and form bonds, like this couple(pic) they nest like birds. To me, this is what they "love", not being around humans and cats and dogs.FR

No I did not see where you listed before that he had a cage, all i read was about a crate. You have to remember i am not there, I only know what I read on here or what i see in pictures. So you can only be judged by those things. If it bothers you to be judged by those things then I am sorry but it is all I have to go by.

As for me having a problem with you, LOL I dont know you nothing I say is personal nor am I out to pester you.

But I have read your post as you put it on here for us to read. I decided to reply as that is an option on here. Do you not post to here opinions good or bad? Or do you prefer to just post and not have anyone comment?

I only said that because I have had several posts deleted because you replied to them in a rather STRONG manner and when I went to reply or after I had replied, I find the whole string deleted by the moderators...I figured you had something against me as it was only your posts that got my msg's deleted.

No offense meant.

Yes, he has a crate/cage.
No, he is never locked in it or closed off.
Yes, he has free roam.
No, he is not a fluffy bunny or puppy and is a reptile.
Yes, I think he deserves to be treated as one.

...but how is that? How do you treat something as a reptile...other than offering the necessities for living, which I like to think he has...what in you opinion, should I do differently? I am only on these lists to share my experiences and learn from others. I have seen your photos in the gallery and you obviously have the knack for keeping healthy herps, so please. your opinion, as well as all others, are much appreciated.

I was defensive as it felt that I was being singled out by you is all. I didn't mean anything by it.

Not sure what threads have been removed. I only remember replying to you about UV lighting. I came on strong cause that subject had been just gone over. Sometimes i get tired of repeatingmyself is all. Was nothing against you sorry if you took it personal.

"Yes, he has a crate/cage.
No, he is never locked in it or closed off.
Yes, he has free roam.
No, he is not a fluffy bunny or puppy and is a reptile.
Yes, I think he deserves to be treated as one."

About what you said above. The crate cage is pointless and I don't understand what it even offers to him. It may be good to transport him to the vet or wherever. But it is not good for much else.

Free roaming lizards never do very well. Your house is built for you and your needs not for your monitors needs. If it was built for a reptiles needs it would be very much as Frank said a greenhouse. High temps, basking areas, logs, branches, burrowing substrate, and high humidity.

You say he is not a bunny or puppy, and that he deserves to be treated like a reptile. Well then if you know this then why are you not doing this? Sorry if it offends but in my opinion your not treating it as a reptile and your not offering it what it needs.

Monitors living in the conditions you offer, typically are not long lived. The main reason is cooler temps. and low humidity. Which basically comes down to husbandry. I do not believe anyone has the perfect setup, but when something is proven to not work, or benefit the animals I would not do it.

I am glad you enjoyed my pictures, hopefully you have come here to learn.

Have a happy mothers day.

n/p

I think it is better to settle it behind the belly and in front of the hips. That way it will not become tight if it slides back. That's the way Rollin's pictures show it.

Leslie