Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I can find just about anything I ever wanted to know about morphs on the net. Fine and dandy. I understand genetics, etc. etc. etc.

I have not been herping long (1 yr), but I really enjoy enveloping all of the learned knowledge I can. I enjoy learning even more when it is applicable to my pets.

I know some of you know, so if you can, help me out. On to the stupid questions...

I own 2 NORMAL ball pythons. Their patterns are as unique as I have seen anywhere when it comes to normals (though I know some of you have some like them). Let me be more specific - one of my males has solid light-brown patches on him, with no black speckling in-between. The second one is 'high black' and has black speckling on all but one of the light-brown patches.

I will post their pictures below.

Are patterns of this near-flawless nature genetically inheritable? Certainly they must! Are there names for these patterns? Is there a reason to why they aren't bred for these patterning?

The reason I ask is that in a group of normals, these are real standouts... And if they are so appealing to the senses, why wouldn't there be more effort to breed these patterns? Sure they aren't going to be worth the prices of Morphs... but there are things more important than money. Not everyone breeds for money.

I am not trying to start any new morphs and obviously I must be missing something if I am the only one here asking this question.

I have tried to figure this whole thing out several times but noone seems to take me on! Please satisfy my curiosity! I don't care if I am the most ignorant and idiotic fool to ever meet the herping world! I'm just trying to learn...

Thank you very much for the help.

-----
-Iman
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Gizmo and Nema)
2.0 Ball Pythons (Spot and Speck)
0.1 Colombian BCI (Belle)
1.0 Colombian Rainbow (Rex)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow (Just arrived!!!)

Loving to Learn
Learning to Help
Helping to Love

Stimulate debates, stifle arguments.
Please be nice always.



Imans House of Herps

The top one seems to have somewhat of a reduced pattern, and the bottom looks like a classic jungle pattern. The problem is, it seems that these traits just seem to be more a of a random occurance than a genetic trait. There is a type of reduced pattern I believe that is dominant but the only way to find out is to breed and prove out, there are a lot of normal balls that just have great patterns. You also see a lot of very beautiful striped animals, but if you were to try to breed these, you would still get a lot of random patterning (unless of course it's a genetic stripe). Great looking snakes, I love all reduced looking ball pythons.

THose patterns/colors aren't very unique. I think i saw a couple that looked like that at the pet store yesterday. If you breed you will get normals.
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

beautiful ball pythons, I love the second one, so much black on it.

I don't think you seen some in the pet store that looked exactly like them. No two are the same (unless of course twins hatched from the same egg) they all have unique patterns.

The only way you will know for sure is if you breed some second generations back to momma/daddy to see if anything pops out.
-----
1.1 Ball Python, 0.1 motley amel corn, 1.0 western hognose, 1.0 red blood

I hatched twins in my first clutch in 2000 and they had very different patterns. I saved their shed skins in hope of someday getting genetic tests done to see if they (both boys) where genetic identical twins from a split fertilized egg or just ordinary siblings that happened to get shelled together. It would be interesting to study the patterns of genetically identical twins to try to figure out how much of the pattern is genetic and how much chance. I understand that identical twin humans have different fingerprints. Maybe there would be a tendency for genetic twin ball pythons to have similar patterns but probably not identical. Or maybe even the general pattern type might be determined by chance and environment during incubation (hot side or cold side of the egg etc.).

not identical but very similar. np
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

THANK YOU ALL!!!

I appreciate of all the answers. I know that there exists others like them, but they are HARD to come across. These two are not related, and certainly not twins - though that is another interesting topic in itself.

It just seems that my underlying question isn't getting answered.

Has noone ever tried to breed for these patterns? Can noone give me any info about their genetically history and viability?

Thank you...
-----
-Iman
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Gizmo and Nema)
2.0 Ball Pythons (Spot and Speck)
0.1 Colombian BCI (Belle)
1.0 Colombian Rainbow (Rex)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow (Just arrived!!!)

Loving to Learn
Learning to Help
Helping to Love

Stimulate debates, stifle arguments.
Please be nice always.



Imans House of Herps

Your top one looks Reduced.
I love reduced-patterned BPs. My Bela is reduced; you can see a pic of her a few posts back, and in my sig below.
A few breeders are experimenting with this type of BP now. I would not classify it as a "morph" personally, but I think they are gorgeous. I bought Bela because she's reduced-ish. I plan on buying a male reduced to breed her with, and who knows what'll happen?
-----

Ok good points.

What I am slowly concluding is that noone has really experimented much with the rarer normal patterns. Or if so, they are keeping quiet.

But what I ultimately keeping thinking, is that at somepoint, someone must have tried breeding 'reduced-ish' and 'jungle/congo' patterned normals before getting into the serious morphs... it would the natural evolution of morph experimentation.

Has anyone bred "Semi-Reduced X Semi-Reduced" or "Jungle/Congo X Jungle Congo" normals together?

If you need a clear definition of the snakes I am talking about, they can be found on my herp hobby site below my signature.

Thanks a bunch.

Please continue the debate...
-----
-Iman
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Gizmo and Nema)
2.0 Ball Pythons (Spot and Speck)
0.1 Colombian BCI (Belle)
1.0 Colombian Rainbow (Rex)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow (Just arrived!!!)

Loving to Learn
Learning to Help
Helping to Love

Stimulate debates, stifle arguments.
Please be nice always.



Imans House of Herps