Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am very interested in aquariums, namely african ciclids. I am moving into an apartment, and I bought a 55 gallon aquairum for the fish, but I was then informed by my room mates they were afriad someone would get drunk, crash it, and flood the apartment. (college apt.)....so anyway I was interested in getting a red rat snake. With the size of a 55 gallon, is it possible to have more than one snake in there? Also, can two different species live together, or will it eventually cause the death of one/both? (maybe some suggestions of snakes that are cooperatable, if any). Just such a big tank, kind of a waste for one snake in it.

You could keep a Grater snake with your Red Rat Snake. The Garter Snake will eat fish and worms, so they won't compete for the same food. The main problem with keeping more than one rat snake together is that they will fight over food.

I hope that you know that you can't keep a King Snake in the tank because it will eat another snake.

Best to not house snakes communally. However, the likelihood is that there will not be a problem if you were to house two "red rat snakes" together. More chance to have a problem during feeding time. Either separate them or monitor them very closely while feeding should you choose to keep them together.

Okay, here's my next question. I know snakes bite, do don't let that be the answer to this question, please. But is it common for a Red / Snow Rat Snake to bite their person? What about a garter?

I've only had four red rat/corn snakes in my time, and three of those were when I was selling them. One was a blizzard or snow corn. Anyway, to me, they definately weren't the greatest pets, but others think they are. They're a little more high strung than a lot of the snakes I deal with.

The fourth corn snake is one I just caught as pretty much almost a hatchling, and she has bitten me probably 20 times already, but once she's out and being handled, she calms down and just cruises around my hands and all.

Garter snakes are something that I've got quite a bit of experience with. I used to breed Iowa Plains garters, and they were also high strung. Babies and juveniles of this species will bite (some more than others), but adults just seem to throw themselves around and sling crap on you every time ya hold them lol. In fact, my adults had never even tried to bite me.

A problem you may have with garters, especially if you get wild caught, is adapting them to eat rodents. Some people say it's easy, but I never got any of my WC iowa plains adults to eat anything other than toads (tried pinks, fuzzies, hoppers, adt mice, live, prekilled, f/t, rat pups, fish,etc). Babies, however, would eat almost anything. A lot of people start them off on worms, but ya can also use pinky parts, mouse tails, or whatever.

Garter snakes may be somewhat more messier than corn snakes, and this brings me to a reason ya may not want to house garters with corns, especially if the garters are WC. They probably have a big parasite load, and the toads or whatever you feed them are also going to be loaded with parasites. This will spread to the red rat/corn snake.

So, IMO, I would stick to one species per tank.

As of now i'm looking at getting a snow/bilzzard rat snake and either a blood red albino or a regular red rat snake. (None of these snakes are dyed by humans are they? I know they do that to some fish, i'm just making sure i'm buying a snake that was born that way.) Also, if I got a male and female, would they be able to breed, and if so, would this cross blend of rat snakes produce a somewhat nice looking snake people would want to have?

Also, it was mentioned that rat snakes are high strung. Any suggestions on some that aren't quite as high strung, and may be less agressive? Thanks for everyones help.
-Chris

The red rat snakes and blizzard/snow red snakes ya are referring to are commonly called corn snakes. From what I've read, there are appx 60 phases (colors, patterns, combos) of corn snakes available. I know that some corn snakes are bred with other rat snakes to get a certain color as well. They're not dyed by people.

As far as a snake that's not so high strung, my best pet snake was a desert phase california kingsnake. There are also quite a few color and pattern varieties of them out there, like albino, banded, striped, lavender albino i think, banana phase, 50/50, snow, ghost, etc.

Another snake that you might want to check out is african house snakes. They don't get very large and make great pets.

If you want something unique, you could go with like an Indian Sand boa. They can reach appx 4ft in length, are fun to raise from newborns, and make pretty descent pets. The tradeoff is that they're usually buried in the substrate most of the time.

If you want to keep it in the rat snake family, trans-pecos rat snakes are awesome snakes, if you can find a nice, cb one in your area.

In the end, it's all going to depend on the individual animal, and how often it's handled. My california kingsnake was handled by my wife, friends, and myself atleast three times daily, and she seemed to like being held, was always calm, and never tried to bite. I ended up giving her to one of my best friends a few years back and kinda regret it now.

Hope this will help ya

the interest in hybrids. Cornsnakes alone have every color and pattern under the sun, in addition to ratsnakes comng in albino, white sided, as well as leucistic and other morphs. With all the pure blooded snakes to choose from, there's more then enough beauty to go around. Albino Tangerine Hondurans, Albino Nelsons, Grey-Bands, Bairdi Ratsnakes, Mandarin ratsnakes, etc. etc. To each his own, but you would be hard pressed to create crosses that look better then some of these guys. Just my nickles worth.

Steve

N/M

so basically if it's handled enough, it's not going to be too agressive towards me, my friends, or my girlfriend? (if she'll even let me hav it out when shes around, lol). I was looking through posts and looked at one on this snake called a blue beauty...I presume this is a rat snake, considering its in this forum. I think that's a beautiful snake. Is there any chance of breeding a blue beaut. and a snowy/blizzard rat, and if so would the babies turn out decently?

I mean if I get 2 snakes, i'd kind of like to let them breed so I can make some money off of 'em...I know it's a litle more work but I think it's worth it. I've bred Oscar's before. (fish). Or, do I need to get two of the same species to successfully breed them?

Well, like I said, it also depends on each individual snake as well. For example, I got a mexican milk snake a long time ago, after being told they're one of the best pet milk snakes around by the breeder. I got it as a hatchling, and it was always aggressive towards anyone that walked by its cage, looked at it, or tried to handle it.

Yes, blue beauties are rat snakes, but I haven't heard of anyone breeding them with a corn snake, and I'm not even quite sure if it's possible. There are so many different colors and patterns of corn snakes available in the pet industry that you should be able to find one (as far as looks go) that suits you.

I was in the business of breeding and selling a few types of snakes for a little while, and I can tell you that it's not about getting a bunch of pairs of snakes, breeding them, and making a ton of money. A lot of people make that mistake with reptiles, and they end up losing interest (and lots of money).

My recommendation to you to start out is to just learn the correct husbandry for them, and then get a couple pairs snakes (1-2 pairs or whatever), and keep them as pets. It may take three years before they're old enough to breed. Patience, time, responsability, commitment, and money are some of the key ingredients.

Corn snakes, african house snakes, and garters are probably some of the easiest snakes to breed in captivity. However, there are so many corn snake breeders out there, that a lot of them are only selling $8-$10 (for normals) at some of the shows.

This leads to a possible problem. Pinky mice cost an average of $1 apiece in pet shops. How many times are you going to feed the hatchlings before they are actually sold? Then there's the cost of raising the pair(s) to adulthood, as well as weekly feedings. You could raise your own mice, but it's a job in itself, cost money for substrate, cages, and equipment, and they aren't the best smellin' animals in the world.

Let's say you wanna do reptile shows as well. Booths may run ya anywhere from $40 to over $100 for that, as well as gas in the car to drive from state to state selling, food you eat, motel rooms, etc.

So, start out as a hobby. If ya like it, do it as a side business, and if you ever get reputable reputation and a large collection, ya might start making a profit on it.

Good Luck

so basically if it's handled enough, it's not going to be too agressive towards me, my friends, or my girlfriend? (if she'll even let me hav it out when shes around, lol). I was looking through posts and looked at one on this snake called a blue beauty...I presume this is a rat snake, considering its in this forum. I think that's a beautiful snake. Is there any chance of breeding a blue beaut. and a snowy/blizzard rat, and if so would the babies turn out decently?

I mean if I get 2 snakes, i'd kind of like to let them breed so I can make some money off of 'em...I know it's a litle more work but I think it's worth it. I've bred Oscar's before. (fish). Or, do I need to get two of the same species to successfully breed them?

I'm talking to this guy I found on the classifieds here about a pair of blue beauts that he has for sale. I was reading some other posts and they were talking about how crosses of some snakes are not saught after at all, that they are considered the "mutts" of the reptile world. He is wanting $130 for a pair (male and female), they were born in the fall of 03. He's sending me a picture of them today. Is this a good price? ($35 for shipping on top of that)

My whole intention was to keep them as pets, if they lay eggs, then great. I'd like to take the challange up someday, but as these being my first snakes, i'd like to keep them as pets for a while and learn more about them. Also, I figure the babies, even though these two were bred from captive parents, and so they would be the third generation of captive bred snakes, still are wild animals and my guess is they would want to bite me every time i picked them up in the beginning. And that would hurt like hell. I presume.

You brought up the subject of breeding mice....I would like to give the grown snakes some live mice every now and then (kind of the thrill of watching the hunt...I know it sounds morbid, but every college student male would be interested, I think.) How big of a pain is it to breed mice? Is it possible to keep them in a cage outside? Also, I am planning on going down to pet supermarket and getting this 55 gallon setup (tank, lights, hood) for $99, then the stand for $89. Will this be big enough for 2 full grown blue beauties, or should I go larger, such as a 75 gallon?

I really appreciate the help you're giving me. Thanks a LOT.

Oh, and i've started a new thread called setting up which explains more you may want to read before replying here. Just saving you some time. THANKS!!!!!

If fish are your passion...I would stick with them.. I like the South American Cichlids myself. I have had many fish tanks over the years (including college)...I have also had many drunks in my home (including myself)...I have known many "party" people with fish tanks also...I have NEVER had a drunk crash my tank. If your place plans to be THAT out of control, I would not suggest a snake either.
That said, one snake per tank is always best for many reasons. If you MUST put 2 in, make them the same species and size and do not feed them in the same tank. I assume you are talking about cornsnakes (red rats). If you want 2 "different" snakes in the same tank, get two different color morphs of corns.
Also, think about how LONG you really intend to keep these animals. Ratsnakes can live a long time...College is a pretty transitional stage. Please do not think of snakes as "disposable" pets. Duffy

one of my room mates is a physics major and he doesnt see how the 3/4" thickness of glass can possibly stand up to 440 some odd pounds of water, if a drunk hits it. The thing is I agree with you, I don't get drunk. I may get a buzz but I keep things under control in the apartment. I never loose my inhibitions. So I really think his fear is stupid, but who knows. I really would LOVE to have a 120 gal tank for the cichlids and a 55 for some snakes, because they've always interested me...my mom always refused to let me keep one. I'll probably go with a snowy and regular red rat snakes. Thanks for the help. And dont worry, the'll be around with me until they die.