Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We have about 40 adult BP's and about 80 babies. It can
get rather expensive to treat for internal parasites at the vet.

Would like to ask for advice of those with experience.

Can treating for internal parasites be done at home?

How would one go about it?

Any info will be greately appreciated

Ben

You have to know what you are treating for..is it roundworms? Hookworms? Pinworms? Tapeworms? Strongyloids? Some Flagellate?

Different worms require different meds. In order to find out what you are treating, you either have to go to a vet and have a fecal exam done or learn to do it yourself and buy the necessary equipment. Then you have the problem of obtaining the meds. They are all prescription only. Once you obtain the meds, you need to know how to dose it. This is critical because some of them are very toxic at higher doses. Some can be given orally by means of a stomach tube, others are IM or SC.

IM = intra muscular?

SC = sub cutaneous?

How much do you think an adequate microscope to identify parasites would cost and where is best place to purchase such?

Probably some of the best for the money are made by LW Scientific. You can buy one that will do the job for about $400.00. That will give you a monocular head with 10x eyepiece, abbe condenser and three objectives, 4x, 10x, and 40x. That will give you 40, 100 and 400 power. I believe that one is called an Explorer III. Or, you can move up some and for less that $1,000.00 you can get a binocular head with 10x and 16x eyepieces (16x bought separately), a mechanical stage and a 4 position nosepiece with 4x, 10x, 40x and 100x (oil lens). That gives you a range of magnifications from 40x to 1,600x. That one is called an Explorer IVB.

40x, 100x, and 400x are plenty for looking for parasites. The only time I really use the oil lens (1,000 to 1,600 power) is when I'm looking for really tiny stuff (2 um) such as Cryptosporidia oocysts.

www.lwscientific.com

Thank you very much for your reply!

I appreciate the information.

Ben

"Then you have the problem of obtaining the meds. They are all prescription only."

>>This statment is not true. You can purchase Panacur,Ivermectin,Praziquantel, Albon and Metronidazole online without a prescrption legally. Here's a good place to get medications:Revival animal health, Phone# 800-786-4751 web address: revivalanimal.com They also sell microcopes,fecasol and books on Veterinary clinical parasitology.

What they sell is not in a strength for use. For instance they sell Albon at a 40% strength, the normal prescription strength is a 5% suspension. That's how they get around having a prescription. These are, in fact, prescription meds when mixed and diluted to the proper strengths for use in animals. True, you can dilute it for use yourself (and they also sell the dilution/suspension for it and provide instructions)so ordering the med in that form is legal. However, once you mix the drug for use, I think you will technically be in possession of a controlled substance without a prescription. I have my doubts that it would ever be enforced, but what do I know? Maybe if you screwed up your dosing and killed a bunch of animals they would enforce it.

There are other websites that advertise that you can buy meds without a prescription that are ready for use. With these sites, what they do is get the name and fax number of a veterinarian from you and then they fax the vet what is essentially a prescription for him to sign and fax back. So, you didn't really buy it without a prescription, and you have to find a vet willing to do that for you.

"What they sell is not in a strength for use. For instance they sell Albon at a 40% strength, the normal prescription strength is a 5% suspension."

>> Wrong again! Albon 40% is for injections. They sell three types of Albon:Albon Injectable 40%, Albon 12.5% Solution,and Albon Soluble Powder. Albon is used mainly for treating coccidia in reptiles. Treament consists of orally administering sulfadimethoxine(Albon), not injecting it. You could use the Albon Soluble Powder(107 gram pkt.) and mix any stength that is needed

Another example: They sell Panacur in 25 gram tubes, each gram = 100mg Fenbendazole. Lets say you have a snake that weighs 1 kilo, that means you give the snake 1/2 gram of panacur.Is that to hard to figure out?

"That's how they get around having a prescription. These are, in fact, prescription meds when mixed and diluted to the proper strengths for use in animals."

>>They can get around it because the meds are label for livestock.Any good feed store will have these meds for sale.

"True, you can dilute it for use yourself (and they also sell the dilution/suspension for it and provide instructions)so ordering the med in that form is legal. However, once you mix the drug for use, I think you will technically be in possession of a controlled substance without a prescription."

>>WHAT!!??!!, so diluting a legally obtain wormer turns it in to a control subtance. LOL Can you cite any references to back up this statment? Yep, let's lock up John Doe for treating his reptiles for parasites.

"There are other websites that advertise that you can buy meds without a prescription that are ready for use. With these sites, what they do is get the name and fax number of a veterinarian from you and then they fax the vet what is essentially a prescription for him to sign and fax back. So, you didn't really buy it without a prescription, and you have to find a vet willing to do that for you"

>>Some meds do require a prescription like Baytril and Amikacin.But some meds like Panacur, Albon, Invermectin, and Metronidazole can be legally obtain without a prescription. If you don't believe me call them and ask them for your self.

I did call them and asked them how they got around the prescriptions and that's what the lady told me. She did acknowledge that when formulated and labelled for use in small animals they ALL require prescriptions. In the strengths and forms they sell it in , it's legal for livestock only and it's not labelled use in other than livestock. If you are going to use it for something else, it's supposed to require a prescription. Call your vet and ask him. Albon and Panacur BOTH are prescription drugs when packaged and labelled for use in small animals. You can buy the stuff at the co-op for livestock, but I'll guarantee you if you use it for something else, you're violating the law. It's called extra-label use. You can flame me all you want, I didn't write the law, I'm just telling you what it is. Same with Ivomec. Hey, if they weren't prescription, you would just be able to walk into your local PetSmart and buy it off the shelf.

I know how to dose Panacur and Albon and, yes, even Baytril. I know what Albon is used for. I've probably been doing it as long or longer than you have (30 years.) Okay, Okay..in the early days we used other drugs, but same idea. But I've never ordered meds over the internet. By the way, if you use a med for a purpose other than what it's labelled for...well, look for yourself:

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/memos/cvmm10.html

Here's a link to Minnesota's laws regarding extra-label uses of veterinary drugs.

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/156/18.html

Other states have very similar laws. If you must see it, I'll look the one up for Georgia, too...I've read it before and it's essentially the same.

I don't intend to keep arguing this point, it's not worth my time. If you don't believe what I'm telling you, that's fine..like I said, call your vet and ask him. He's the one with the DEA license at risk if he violates those laws....he'll know. Or..just waltz into his office and tell him you need some Albon for small animals, and since you know it's not prescription, demand that he sell it to you over the counter without seeing the animal. Georgia law says that he can dispense it to you to take home and treat your own animal with, but he MUST examine the animal first. But don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.