Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, it's been a while.

Draco has been snacking on some of the perlite in the enclosure, is that very bad?
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Mark Martinez
University of Florida

it's never good when a reptile is ingesting good amounts of a non-digestable substrate. Perlite is a kind of vermiculite, so it's probably little pebbles of mineral right? Those can't dissolve in a uro's stomach, and don't they sort of expand when wet? I'm not quite familiar with it. I don't use vermiculite in my soil. I only use a few inches (I took apart a stack and made a 1'x1.5-2' thing for her to burrow under, and she really likes it), so it would only really help to retain water. I'm just worried she might eat it like yours is. Even the pebbles in my soil/sand mixture worry me, even though I've never seen her try to eat one. For me it's stressful enough just to see her lick the soil or lick her lips after getting dirt on her head after burrowing, but I know that most likely she will pass that. Vermiculite will be harder. If I were you I'd put something over the substrate (like newspaper or something) until you could switch it or something, and I'd watch the poo to see how much comes back out. If the uro starts seeming constipated, don't waste time getting it to a vet. I think uros that are prone to eat floor coverings are best off on millet. It's not very natural, but my feelings are that some uros probably do get impactions in the wild due to natural selection, and I don't want natural selection to affect my pets.

Good luck with the uro. I hope all goes well and he/she passes it without a problem.

thanks.

It's funny, I can smell that they are going to the bathroom regularly, but I can't find the feces as easily as I used too....
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Mark Martinez
University of Florida

Mark, i don't see that there would be any problem. perhaps try and evaluate WHY the animal is "snacking" on substrate, if that is indeed what is happening (are you sure he is actually ingesting it?).

regardless, it should pass like anything else, given proper temps,hydration and husbandry.

because i have actually SEEN and WORKED with both vermiculite and perlite, i can tell you they are not at all alike, not that that has relevence to the question...

ryan, why do you insist on answering posts when you have no idea what folks are talking about? your post basically said "i don't know what perlite is, but here is what i think of it". your goofy guesses are going to cost an animal its life someday, and you will just be "oh well, i was guessing".

do you just like to see yourself post? really, you need to take more responsibility when giving out "advice". i have yet to see basic reptile husbandry comprehension from your posts, much less advanced understanding that would allow you to give advice to others.

i am not trying to give you a hard time just for fun, i just can't believe you answer every possible question with an answer that essentially says "this is just a guess, and i really don't know".
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn, I see nothing wrong with my post. It seems to me that since it disagrees with your ideas of husbandry, you feel you have to combat it with full force and lash out with claims that I don't know what I'm doing. Yes, this post was partly a guess, and it is easily distinguished as a guess. That's why in the beginning I basically asked if perlite was what I thought it was, and if it wasn't he could simply say "no, that is not what perlite is". I gave my opinion, and that opinion is that allowing a lizard to ingest particles that have a possibility of not passing through the lizard's digestive system is not good husbandry. Your opinion seems to be opposite...but maybe you should have posted your opinion instead of once again just disputing mine and administering a nice personal attack. I'm half your age and I know that. I'm just sick of taking all your crap. I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm even trying out your "new" ideas, but you still have a tendancy towards ridiculing me. I would take your ideas more seriously if every other post you made wasn't just attacking someone else's husbandry to make yours seems superior. If your ideas are that great, you shouldn't need to. You've been fairly impolite to me since the beginning, even though you were nice enough to help out when I was in need. I just don't see a need for any sort of verbal attack. Most of your post was telling me you think I'm wrong.

Since there have been no scientific studies on the use of perlite in lizard substrate that I'm aware of, all evidence for its use is anecdotal...I have seen warnings about its use posted on other lizard forums, and saw a post several months ago on the leopard gecko forum about a young gecko that died after ingesting two pieces of perlite (allegedly confirmed on necropsy at the vet's)...I have also heard that perlite is perfectly safe and can be used with no problems...The point is, neither opinion is "right"; they are simply that, differing opinions and experiences to be taken for what they're worth..To make as informed a decision as possible it's important to hear as many of those different experiences as we can; at this point in time there is no absolute scientific proof supporting either side...

SR

Well said, Shelley.

When I post a question, I like to get as many different opinions and ideas as possible. I will read them all, and use my own experiences and common sense to decide what is right for me and for my specific animals. Animal care is not an exact science, just as child care is not. Each person has slightly different methods and techniques, and what works for one, may not work for another.

So, please, everyone, do not hesitate to give your opinions. That's what we need when we ask questions!

Thanks,
Nicole
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Nicki and...

1.0.0 Liasis mackloti savuensis (Savu python) - Bazzi
0.0.2 Uromastyx geyri (Saharan Uromastyx) - Dragon and Belle
1.1.0 Uromastyx dispar maliensis (Mali Uromastyx) - Spike and Lizzy
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri (Variable (Thayer’s) Kingsnake) - Kavi
0.0.1 Lampropeltis triangulum campbelli (Pueblan Milksnake) - Callia
0.2.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis (Red-Sided Garter Snakes) - Spot and Fluffy

Ontario, Canada

Yeah Robin they are both occasionally ingesting it, I catch them. I wonder why they are doing it, there's no way it can be that harmless, I mean just eating one pellet would be like the size of a taco to them, there's no way that's good. I'd like to stop the behavior. Then again maybe they want to eat it because it settles their stomach? Like Tums (calcium carbonate)...
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Mark Martinez
University of Florida

that's sort of what I was thinking. Even if they can pass it, it's not good for them. I think you should look into whether or not they might be ingesting to settle their stomaches. Do some research on that and let me know what you come up with (research basically what's in the perlite that they might now be getting from their food). I still wouldn't feel safe having my lizards on something I know they are ingesting if it has the possibility of being dangerous, but that's just one opinion. Hope you get this all sorted out soon. I have been thinking about putting some vermiculite in my soil in my tank to help the soil hold water better, but I will probably try to put a layer of it just below how far she digs in her cage, meaning, an inch below the surface where she doesn't dig, and probably right on the bottom of the tank where she does dig (since she gets close to the bottom I think). There's a lot of stuff to consider though. I've noticed that there are certain colors that my uro will always try to eat, mainly yellow. She tries to eat yellow buttons, yellow spots on blankets, yellow anything. I'm wondering if maybe the color of the perlite might be making them think it is safe to eat for some reason? I know the buttons on my nintendo 64 controller aren't edible, but she still tries.

First of all, everbody pay attention!!!(heheh)

Vermiculite is an alumino-silicate clay mineral that is mined then heated to expand the partilcles. Its sterile, soaks up 3-4 times its volume in water and attracts nutrients like calcium, magnesium, potassium, and phosphorus.

Perlite is a silicon-rich volcanic rock that is mined then heated to expand its particles. It will absorb some water but it is mainly used in potting soil to better aerate and improve drainage in potted plants.

Now, my 2 cents. I think that ingesting either of these minerals is probably not a great idea. However, all things shall pass in one way or another. I would think this would cause impaction. I am using a dirt mixture that has some vermiculite and my animal seems to leave that alone.

Good Luck!
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BigMac
1.0 Mali Uro - Tank
1.0 Leo - Doobie
0.1 Chacoan Monkey Frog - Pilar
1.0 Corn Snake - Muka
0.0.1 Ball Python - Monty
0.0.1 Calif. Kingsnake - Asgar