Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found a young snake (about a foot long) that I first thought was a juvenile black rat. It looks basically like a corn snake except that it is only shades of black/grey and white. However, all of the adult black rats I've ever seen have plain white belly scales, and this one is checkered just like a corn snake. Do juvenile black rats have checkered bellies and then turn white, or could this be an anery corn snake? Also, the belly starts out pretty much white with checkers at the head, and fades into a peach/orange with checkers to the tail. That orange color is the only part of the snake that is not black/grey and white. The only other canidates that I would think it could be are either an eastern milk or a juvenile racer, but I have found both of those as juveniles around here, and neither look like this. Sorry about not having pics, but I don't have a digital camera. I'll try and take some pics and scan them in soon.
Thanks!
-Will

With the checkerboard belly, it's gotta be a ratsnake, but could be either species. Guttata has bold markings & a striped tail on the ventral side. The markings on obsoleta are small & often indistinct & the tail is not striped. Hope this helps.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

Is there a marking on the head that looks a bit like a spear point? Also, are the saddles on the back squarish or even a bit round or are they more like bands across the back?

The checkers are srectangular or maybe are they more rounded. I have an idea on another possibility but hopefully your answer or your photo will provide what we need to ID this.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

On second thought...I checked my old Maryland book and they do occur threre and match your descripion.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

It doesn't have the Y or V shaped head marking that milk's usually have. I have caught a lot of milks in this area, and it's definatly not a milk. However, it doesn't have an arrow shape on the head that corns generally have either. the head is mostly all grey except the sort of band that goes across the eyes, and if it had ears, you could imagine a dark blotch on the neck that sort of branches out to that area of the head from the neck, but doesn't reconnect to make a Y or arrow shaped pattern. I have a motley corn and the scale pattern on the head is the same, but if i'm not mistaken, a black rat would have the same thing. The blotches on it's back are not band like, but rather more square. some have a bit of roundness to them, but for the most part are square. the black belly blotches are mostly 2-3 scales long on each side of the belly. There are about 4 or 5 blotches after the vent before they turn into two lines that go down the edges of the tail. There's a ton of black rats in my area, and I've seen about 2 corns before too, so i know they're both here. It's gotta be one of those two, but do juvenile black rats have an orange/peach belly with blotches? I know the adults here have white bellys, but i don't know if that's a change from when they're younger. If it's a corn, it's def not a normal coloration though, cause like i said before, it's all black/grey and white except for the belly, but it's got basically all of the signs of a corn. Is there a possiblity that it could be a black rat x corn? (and by the way, that would be a elaphe obsoleta x pantherophis guttatus, it's not elaphe guttata anymore!) I reeeeeeeeeally wish i had a camera! hope this helped!
thanks!
-Will

n/t

I had toyed with the idea that if were not a milk then it might be a mole king but your "enhanced description rules that out.

Most of what you describe is typical to a red rat...except the band across the eyes is more in keeping with Obsoleta.

Without a picture... I think you may well have a hybrid!

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Does it have the typical "spear" pattern on its head?? If so, then most likely that is what you have found. Corns are pretty variable when it comes to coloration.

"spear" pattern on corns head...

But hatchling/juvenile black rat snakes can also have a checkered belly pattern. If the "spear" pattern is not present, and the snake has a black or gray line running verticaly through its eye to its jaw, then you have a black rat snake. This is what I would lean towards what you have found.

Head shot of a Black rat snake. See the line Im talking about on the side of the head?

Good luck
Brian

>>I found a young snake (about a foot long) that I first thought was a juvenile black rat. It looks basically like a corn snake except that it is only shades of black/grey and white. However, all of the adult black rats I've ever seen have plain white belly scales, and this one is checkered just like a corn snake. Do juvenile black rats have checkered bellies and then turn white, or could this be an anery corn snake? Also, the belly starts out pretty much white with checkers at the head, and fades into a peach/orange with checkers to the tail. That orange color is the only part of the snake that is not black/grey and white. The only other canidates that I would think it could be are either an eastern milk or a juvenile racer, but I have found both of those as juveniles around here, and neither look like this. Sorry about not having pics, but I don't have a digital camera. I'll try and take some pics and scan them in soon.
>>Thanks!
>>-Will

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1.0 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake (KY locale)
1.2 Black rat snakes (MO locale)
1.0 Eastern Yellow Belly racer (MO locale)
1.0 Eastern Milk snake (KY locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Yellow rat snake (Dwight Good stock)
1.1 California king snake (Coastal phase)
1.0 Prairie king snake (KY locale)
0.1 Black king snake (KY locale)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian