Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted a month or so ago about my everglades rat snake regurgitating his meals. Now, he won't even eat. Let me preface this with a little background info. I have very little experience with colubrids. I have successfully kept boids now for over 12 years. About a year ago, I received this large everglades rat snake from a young enthusiast in my hometown. The snake is large, has a great attitude and was a voracious feeder. Today, the snake is still large, still has a great attitude, but won't eat.

I have identified some possible flaws in my caging and heating that could be leading to this problem. Before I visit a vet, however, I want to discuss this with the forum. I moved the snake into an abandoned Neodesha cage that used to house a large Burmese python. It's one of the big 8-foot Neodesha cages. I figured the larger the cage, the happier the snake. Come to think of it, this snake has not eaten well since moving into this enclosure (previous cage was a 6-foot long, 2-foot wide, 2-foot tall homemade cage with double sliding Plexiglas front). I also do not have any special heating in the cage. Three feet away from this snake (obviously in another cage) is an 11-foot Burmese python that is a voracious feeder. I keep the climate in the room suitable to that of the Burmese. I just kind of figured if it was warm enough for the Burm, the rat snake would be fine.

I have actually thought about changing the caging to something with less floor space but more vertical so this snake could climb and have a more realistic environment. Would this help? Also, the snake is not losing weight, and isn't aggressive. He is still alert and attentive; in fact, he acts hungry. But he won't eat. I've tried rats, mice and chicks -- alive, pre-killed and thawed. Nothing. Tried twice this week, once with a mouse and once with a chick. No interest.

He did eat several times over the winter, but gurged each meal. I have treated a variety of illnesses over the years in my pythons, so I know a sick snake when I see one. This one doesn't necessarily act sick. But something's not right.

Any suggestions?

RP

A couple questions, then I think we can help you out. How large is large? I'm guessing 6 feet or so. Also, what temperature do you keep the room at?

The usual culprits in cases like this are either improper temperature or undue stress. The first thing I would try is a thorough cleaning out of the enclosure to remove any traces of the Burmese. Wash it out, replace the bedding, and wash off all devices in the cage (water dish, hiding place, etc.) I might also rearrange things so that the snakes are not within line of sight of each other. That could be a source of stress. And make sure the rat has at least one adequate place to hide.

Second, place a heating pad under one side of the cage and monitor temperatures closely. What you want to do is set up a temperature gradient in the cage that ranges from around 85F on the warm end to 70-75 on the cooler end. The snake then can find it's own comfort zone. I might also provide two hiding places, one on the warm side and one on the cool side.

Given the proper temperatures and plenty of peace and quiet, that should do the trick. If not, it could be a medical condition. If he goes a couple months without eating, a trip to the vet may be in order. Good luck and keep us posted!
-----
MichaelB

The temperature in the room remains between 82-90 F, usually hovering around 85 during the day. It can drop into the high 70's at night, but that hasn't been happening much. The everglades is 5 feet , pushing close to 6. Nice and fat, too. He is on a substrate of newspaper, and spends his time hiding under the paper. In his old setup, I had a hide box but he would never use it. He would still get under the paper and stay there. As far as being in sight of the Burmese, their cages have always faced each other, and the Burm is actually less visible now than he was when the everglades was feeding well. The temperature is excellent for the Burm -- he scarfed down a good sized rabbit about an hour ago and would eat another if I had one at home. So the Burm is doing fine; the everglades isn't.

I'm thinking about reverting to the old cage, and putting in a heating pad to give him a warm spot. Again, the snake doesn't look nor act sick, but if feeding doesn't resume shortly, we'll go to the snake doc.

If you think of anything else based on the answers to my questions above, feel free to share them with me.

RP

Reverting to the old cage, that is. There certainly seems to be a tie between moving him to the Neodesha and his diminished appetite, so it's definitely worth a try. The temperature might be a little high, even for an Everglades Rat. I'd still work on setting up a thermal gradient within his enclosure. I also would try an alternate hiding place. A folded towel is something my rat snakes seem to like, as they can crawl in, around, under, or through it. And easy to clean or replace. Something to climb on, like a sturdy branch or a hunk of driftwood, also would be nice. It may not fix the feeding problem by itself, but they like to climb and he probably would be more comfortable (i.e., less stressed).

Unless other symptoms of illness appear, I'd try these things before taking him to the vet.
-----
MichaelB

I have two everglades. First they both seem to be very secretive animals. Neither one will eat out in the open. They like to be inside their hide and just come out snatch the prey and take it in and eat it. I think they are "happier" in a more confined " secure" feeling environment. My male curls up in a house you would never think he would fit inside of.
I have back heat in my rack, but I think room temps of 85-90 and 75 at night is fine and not the problem. I do think the Burmese odor and oversize cage could be. They usually are not that sensitive. But they are very defensive and wary of their environment.
Good Luck
Nancy
-----
Some of my best friends are snakes
Snakes Rule

>>The temperature in the room remains between 82-90 F, usually hovering around 85 during the day. It can drop into the high 70's at night, but that hasn't been happening much.

>>I'm thinking about reverting to the old cage, and putting in a heating pad to give him a warm spot. Again, the snake doesn't look nor act sick, but if feeding doesn't resume shortly, we'll go to the snake doc.

I am thinking the room itself is about 10* warmer than I would keep my ratsnakes with or without a hot spot. Mine are in the low 80s maximum, with a hotspot but the only time they use it is at night when temps get to the lower 70s.
If he is hot he will be active but it may be causing the regurges too.
If the old cage is in the same room all I can think is it doesn't somehow get as hot and that is how he dealt with it. Personally I would get him cooler regardless of caging.
-----
Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

At those temps, the last thing you want to do is ADD a hotspot. My guess is that the heat is stressing the snake out. Before he changed cages, was he in that same room at those temps??? Even in the 'glades, a wild snake has the option of finding cooler temps when things really heat up. And the nights will not remain at 80 . That snake needs to "chill out" a little bit.
Duffy

Thanks for all your input. I'm going to take some time tomorrow and get the snake out of that room and inside. I keep my snakes in an outbuilding behind my house. I had the building built specifically for keeping snakes, namely large boids (the Burmese's cage is actually a part of the room; big walk-in enclosure). So it's made to be warm. Works fine for the Burm, not so fine apparently for the rat snake. I'm going to get him out of there and into the house where I can better regulate the temperature. We'll see how that works. Now I've just got to convince the wife to let me bring a snake indoors . . .

>>Thanks for all your input. I'm going to take some time tomorrow and get the snake out of that room and inside. I keep my snakes in an outbuilding behind my house. I had the building built specifically for keeping snakes, namely large boids (the Burmese's cage is actually a part of the room; big walk-in enclosure). So it's made to be warm. Works fine for the Burm, not so fine apparently for the rat snake. I'm going to get him out of there and into the house where I can better regulate the temperature. We'll see how that works. Now I've just got to convince the wife to let me bring a snake indoors . . .

Sounds like a plan. Tell your wife that it is your new rodent control system. You saw a mouse and thought you had better take action!
-----
Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron