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Buyers/Sellers Contract? All input appreciated - thanks

southernboids May 16, 2004 11:01 AM

Ok, here is my situation in a nutshell. This is my first season of having a KS classifieds account. I am selling some of my animals, as well as in the market for a few. Problem is, when reading certain boards dedicated to letting consumers know whom we should be able to trust, it is riddled with deals gone south. Animal never shows, hard times and money is gone animal is now sick, escaped, they were not that small when I shipped them 23 hours ago, I could have sworn they were Hets, or I’m only 15 and now what are you going to do. Btw, thanks for the new dirt bike! All very scary and Real according to what I have read.

I want buyers to be certain that will not happen when they purchase from me, as I would like to be assured as well when I purchase animals.

And my solution, or does this already exist? Ok.. not a solution but a help anyway. Have a legal document made up for sales/trades etc that lays out the following?

Seller info

Buyer Info

Details of trade – with pictures- shipping details – money transaction details- any guarantee and if so for what

Explanation that funds are being delivered via Certified Bank Checks for protection of both sides. This is a binding contract etc etc.. legal input here. FAILURE to send animal, (funds, trade animal etc ) is Federal? Crime if over state lines, etc more legal stuff that is punishable by – more legal stuff. Fine and Jail Time!

By accepting the check and cashing you are AGREEING to the above terms and that you are of LEGAL AGE.

Seller Sign

Buyer Sign

Faxed back and forth.

This form made legal by an attorney, drawn up and then made public for us to use. We could pitch in to get it started?

Any input greatly appreciated. I am just trying to cover my Butt as well as letting people know they can trust in me to purchase an animal and receive the same animal etc.

Easier solution I know.. only buy from well known names. I understand. BUT I want to sell my litters as well. IF everyone only buys from the top 10.. we will all be doomed. At the same time I do not want to play Russian roulette with my money either.

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Thanks
Shawn Morelan
www.SouthernBoids.com

Replies (6)

christopher_o May 16, 2004 12:09 PM

It seems like it's always really well known people that say "only buy from well known people...." but how did those people become well known?

I just offer references...and if I'm in doubt about someone I just won't buy from them.

Of course anyone could there buddy to give them a good reference....a standarized form could protect alot of people...but then again, will a piece of paper make some honest?

If I can help you get this started, let me know...

Chris

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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

Jeremy Stone May 16, 2004 01:08 PM

Hello, I can see your point, and anything willing to help the public ensure a good buying situation would be a boost to the market, but here is my Take. I don't think that will work. You can always get into a (Tissing match with He said she said situation). "when I sent the animal it was Healthy" now you say it isn't, what did you do in the process"?????? It will always boil down to some stupid dishonest person trying to take advantage of a person, and this may only help dishonest people become credible, and then take advantage of them in a (he said she said situation).

This is My Point:

This is a LIVE ANIMAL business. In a business such as this, animals WILL die. All major breeders with experience has sold animals that have died, and that is just part of the business. Shipping, can go wrong, accidents happen, etc...... This really is a BUYER BEWARE market.

I think that with such a business, it really allows honest breeders to succeed, and dishonest sellers to get weeded out. I have sooo often seen buyers pass up on a reputable breeder animal just to save a few hundred dollars, and then completely regret it. It happens EVERYDAY. I see it happen a TON with me. I get contacted on a by weekly basis of how someone ripped them off and they are looking for an animal that they still want. Many of these people are people that contacted me for an animal and I wouldn't lower my price to reflect the competetion and they would buy the cheaper animal. They end up telling me about it and I truly feel sorry for them. However, a lesson will be learned. I had to learn this SAME lesson the hard way myself. Time and time again, I look at the classifieds and find myself staring in disbelief, as I just KNOW many of the animals that are for sale look Bad, or I know they just aren't Right. I wish I could do something, but I can. Let the the BUYERS KNOW that it REALLY is a BUYER BEWARE MARKET. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..

Now, how does this help someone like a New breeder that comes along trying to start his business/hobby from breeding and trying to develop a name that will have credibility?? Here are some Pointers:::: Make sure you sell ONLY animals you would want to Buy if you were the Buyer. Of course you want to keep the best for yourself, and sell ones you don't need or want anymore, but make sure that if you did need it, you would feel comfortable buying it from a Health Standpoint.

Also, this is a Relationships business too. We all don't get along with everyone. Here is something I did that really helped me get started, and helped me establish a name. (I know I am not Mr. Big breeder, and there are many better and bigger breeders then me.) I am just saying this from an experience factor with having animals to sell for the last 8 to 10 years that are Morphs and higher dollar stuff. Also speaking from experience with selling everything I need to sell each year. When Buying Stuff, I always was able to sell the Bloodlines of an Established breeders name easier then I did from a Broker I bought from. Like Pete Kahl. In the early 90's I did a lot of Buying from Pete, and then Later from Tracy Barker, and a few others. In doing this I was also able to establish good friendships. I was always giving them Money when I said I would, and paid projects off when they gave me time to do so. This helped me with my name as I was able to use them as refferences as to the fact that I kept my word. This really helped me as the other breeders would get calls about me they would then give me as a person they could trust to keep my word. As Time grew I also was able to swap out animals with these guys, and eventually they even became customers of Mine. A good breeder is ALWAYS willing to pick out good stock, and get animals that are up with the Times. I think Pete Kahl is the Best of the Best at this. He has the most amazing collection and I consider him a mentor. He is honest, and SURE he sometimes has a situation where an animal will go bad. EVERYONE DOES if they are Honest. It is what you DO with the situation when a problem arrises that makes you a person of character to deal with. Everyone can claim honesty when everything goes smooth sailing.

So, that is just me. I Would get good bloodlines from well know breeders, and MARKET those bloodlines. Then eventually I had my own bloodlines, and was able to market those. I am sure I have people that don't like me for ME. That is LIFE. However, people who deal with me and have had problems know I have been Fair. That is all you can ask.

You'll see EVENTUALLY people like to do business with a few other people rather then bigger breeders or bigger names in a certain project. Alex @ Boarepublic was able to sell all his Motleys last year. There were people who chose to deal with him rather then Me, and Vise Versa. That is all Fine. You have to work with those you feel comfortable with. There really is enough room in this for ALL. The animals speak for themselves. I have learned you need to take time to make sure you have adequate customer service, if you really want to sell your stuff. Sure, there are many herpers, that just aren't salesmen, and they breed snakes well. They don't have a problem selling their stuff if the quality speak for themselves. You just have to find a NITCH you are comfortable with. I have learned that if you PRODUCE animals you will sell them. These Markets are all good.

Linda Hedgepeth is a great example of an up and coming Great Boa Lady. She bought BEAUTIFUL high quality animals from Breeders and she showed them off in chats, forums, etc... Whenever she had a litter, she sells EVERY SINGLE BABY. Even competing with many of the breeders who have been around a LOT longer producing the Same animals. She learned that IF you produce Good quality animals, they WILL sell. This is her second year of selling on a national level. The INTERNET has brought the HERP industry to New Heights. You just need to find a way to SHOW your animals OFF.

I could give many examples, but I really would like to See BUYERS take more responsibility. Sellers should too. This is a LIVE animal business. AS such there will ALWAYS be a GREY area. If you don't believe me, go look at the classifieds now, you'll find animals you know that they just shouldn't be sold.

I really hope this helps. This is JUST my opinion. I would love to hear others weigh in on the subject.

I would also like us to tackle the subject of BUYING too. Such as BUYING ADULT Boas. I could make some pretty solid arguments about NOT GETTING THEM. I know many who feel this way. I would love to start a debate on that subject alone and hear all the responses.

Best of Luck in starting your Business. I hope I shared some ideas that can help. There are many other good ideas too.

Take Care, Jeremy Stone

christopher_o May 16, 2004 02:16 PM

more people would share their GOOD EXPERIENCES on the Board of Inquiry....and other outlets for that sort of out-speak.

I also think this forum is a good place to ask around...

I agree with Jeremy, as with all business, you are not only measured by the good times, but also by how you react to the bad.

Of course, this doesn't stop someone else from stick'n it to you....which is why something like what Shawn suggested, if widely accepted (and there in lies the challenge) could help limit the options of those who would act without integrity...and more importantly, give honest people a vehicle to seek recourse...

Reguarding what Jeremy said about buying adults...ALL of my experiences buying adults, with the exception one two, have been BAD.

Example: I once bought an Argentine adult from a guy in Florida...when I opened the box, she was obviously constipated...and DRIPPING with MITES. I should have sent her back...although she has turned out great...I believe in sending a message to people like that. I would love to spill his blood all over this forum but I won't for obvious reasons.

My point is, when you raise a snake from youth, you know it's history...and it was raising a snake from a neonate that got me into this...it's just fun...

The Exception: I would buy an adult from a handful of people because of my previous experiences with them or their reputation...Jeremy S. is on that list, Pete Kahl, Brian Sharp, Jeremy Anderson...a few others. I think everyone knows someone that they would trust enough to buy an adult from them. If they don't, I don't recommend it...

Back to the original topic...I encourage anyone reading this to keep an open mind to something like what Shawn is suggesting, this cna only benefit the industry...let's make protecting the buyer AND the seller the standard....

Chris
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

BLAZEBOAS May 16, 2004 07:55 PM

IM SURE IT WOULD ALSO HELP IF PEOPLE MICROCHIP THEIR ANIMALS, PRIOR TO SELLING THEM.ALSO KEEPING DETAILED RECORDS OF SAID ANIMALS NUMBER. THAT WAY IT WOULD ALSO GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING SURE WHAT ANIMAL IS WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. WHICH ESPECIALLY AS FAR AS HETS GO WOULD PROBABLY BE a lot SAFER WAY TO PROTECT YOUR SELF . ESPECIALLY CONCERNING ANIMALS THAT WERE PRODUCED BY 1 PERSON AND LATER PASSED DOWN THE LINE. THERE IS A THREAD GOING RIGHT NOW ON ANOTHER FORUM, WHERE PAPER WORK WAS TAMPERED WITH CONCERNING HETS . I WOULD IMAGINE THAT CHIPING AN ANIMAL WOULD HELP TO ELIMINATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS. JUST MY 2 CENTS
JOHN PERAZA

bahreptiles May 16, 2004 08:29 PM

it does get confusing and sometimes just outright a take there word for it game. it shouldn't be that way. i have bought hets and things and i trust the buyer to send me what i bought. i have no complaints with anyone i have dealt with and i guess i have a few good "snake friends" you know who you are,thanks. but this a world with greedy unscrupalious people in it just to make a sale. this is not an answer in anyway just a venting on my part. this is one reason why i post on here. to let people know iam in this hobby for a reason.......to help it grow, not to shame it with bs. if i sell anything it is what i say it is. you have my word. my word is my bond. if dont have integretity you have nothing.
just my 2500 pennies....lol
james c.

p.s. chipping is good if it becomes avaliable to us all
"cant take his word" is gone then


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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

willykink May 16, 2004 11:21 PM

how much does "chipping" a snake cost to the average joe?

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