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I saw the video of the Nick Berg execution & I feel it is our duty, as Americans, to show the terrorists the LIGHT. We should organize a program like the one Sally Struthers has to feed the little starving kids, for our Arab friends. So I have some suggestions about how we can go about this:

1) Nothing says "we care!" like a tasty baked ham for our devout muslim neighbors! So instead of shipping wheat, sugar and other staple foods to sustain their population; we should send "Atkins approved" foods such as ham & bacon!
2) A subscription to "Sports Illustrated" for the young male populace is sure to be appreciated by Arabs who enjoy the swimsuit edition.
3) Of course, we don't want to leave out the lovely, young ladies! I'm sure a supply of Mary Kay cosmetics is on the wish list of every young muslim girl. Anyone wishing to donate cosmetics should contact the red cross...please, only cosmetics that are not tested on animals!
4) And how about we share our culture over the airwaves over there. If the marines could put some large speakers around some of these trouble spots & play some soothing American tunes, maybe they will see what we are all about. Some playlist selections could include: Marilyn Manson, Eminem, 50 cent, KISS...I am sure they would enjoy the music during certain times like sunrise, noon & sunset...to break up the silence at prayer time!
5) We donate a few dollars (to the soldiers)as a reward for every captured & photographed terrorist. They could send us an update photo / letter of the "progress" our adopted terrorist is making every month. Maybe dress them up real pretty first!

These are only a few ways we can help "mend our fences" with some of these wayward middle easterners. Does anyone else have any suggestions?

np
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0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
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Edited for TOS violation

Edited on May 19, 2004 at 00:09:12 by PHGinger.

Its ignorant thought process like this that proliferate the hate and miscommunication and animosity between diffrent cultures.

sincerely,

Fred Albury

np
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

But in the midst of this, let us not forget that the contempt is on both sides and in fact has been around much longer on the Moslem side. They hated us centuries before there was an America.

There are no saints here and only the children are truly innocent.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Bashing (ridiculing the enemy) is a distasteful but common side bar to conflict. While not the most admirable behavior, it is unfortunatly as much a part of every war as the shooting.

I am not defending "POP' but the righteous indignation is a bit much when the same thing goes on in every country that is at war...That's just how it is.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

This is clearly the result of when you leave children unsupervised on the Internet. I hope you grow up to amount to something better then you currently are weasel, and thats not much....

Sick? Check yourself! If you disagree with my opinion, so be it...That's why America is the greatest country on Earth! As far as ignorance...I am FAR from ignorant, I'm not very tolerant though! As far as making "fun" of their culture, B.F.D. ! I am not out chanting anti-arab slogans and burning flags, I am simply pointing out that I don't really have any respect for a culture that commits cowardly & barbaric acts in the name of "some god-like entity". Have you seen any video of us bombing them in the name of Jesus (or any other religious figure)? And don't bother bringing up the video/pics of the soldiers humiliating prisoners...apples & oranges! They may be "scarred for life" but they are alive, right? I also don't agree with their treatment, try 'em, convict 'em, & sentence 'em (to whatever deserving punishment). I am also not an "unsupervised child", but I sure appreciate the concern. I do not wonder "why they hate us", its called propaganda! I also don't care IF they hate us. I live in NYC & if you got to see the BS that went down on 9/11...you may see things differently. Ever watch a desperate person jump out of a building to their death? Yeah, I am all broken up that they don't like the US. They don't like jews, they don't like christians, they don't like ANYONE. 2000 years of fighting and conflict in that region, why the hell do we even bother! Piss on political correctness, they can stay in their sand box & we can stay in ours as far as I am concerned. I think the war is total crap, my brother was in Iraq in the '90's and I would've also been there if I had reenlisted. I sure do appreciate the debate though!

>>Have you seen any video of us bombing them in the name of Jesus (or any other religious figure)?

You must not watch the news?

I clearly remember Bush saying that "God" made him president, and what religion do you think he is referring to?

We also use religion.. 99% of our *elected* officials are of what religion?

So if they are Christian, and religion is like a set of laws you govern your decisions by, technically speaking, Yes we do "Bomb in the name of Jesus"

understand?

Bush's sorry brother in Florida "made him" president. I didn't vote for the idiot! I don't give a flying crap who or what he says made him president. I do watch the news and not just the channels I agree with either! I can't say what stupid thought process made dubya decide to start a war with Iraq, nor am I privy to the intelligence information he has (and neither are you), but I do know I disagree with the BS justification of the conflict. If this is part of the "war on terrorism"... than do it. My opinions are not based on religeous beliefs, it's based on the fact that a group of chickensh!t extremists attacked a civilian target(not including the pentagon!), causing massive death/destruction/terror, and there should be reprecussions for that unprovoked action! Real simple...do you understand?

>>If this is part of the "war on terrorism"... than do it. My opinions are not based on religeous beliefs, it's based on the fact that a group of chickensh!t extremists attacked a civilian target(not including the pentagon!), causing massive death/destruction/terror, and there should be reprecussions for that unprovoked action! Real simple...do you understand?

If 9/11 is your reason, then WTF ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ?

All that money wasted, could have been used to bring in Osama..
Remember him?

And Saudi Arabia gets off scott free.. Even though 15 outta 19 of the Hijackers where Saudi Citizens.

BUt we would not dare piss off the Saudis by publicly suggesting they had anything to do with 9/11.

Maybe because The Bush's and the Saudis have a long history?

Maybe because They have trillions invested in our stock market?

Maybe because we "RELY" on them for the majority of our oil? And you think gas is high now?..lol

What does Iraq have to do with what happened on 9/11 directly? There zillion times that much, proving Saudi involvement.

Bottom line..

Bush "USED" 9/11 to "RUSH" us in to this war with Iraq, and thats the real crime! All of his reasons, have turned out to be lies, or as he likes to call them"mis-information"

He vowed to the victims family's to bring Osama to justice, And instead focused our military might, on a whole other regime.

He wraps his self in the flag spouting off Freedom this, and Justice that. Yet I doubt that man even knows the definition of the 2 words.

When confronted with "Unscripted" questions, he mumbles, and stutters the 2 words, in some type of involuntary action.

Why the soapbox speech? Did you just "glance" over the part where I stated I disagree with the war? Or the part about not liking the BS excuse for being in Iraqi? My issue is with extremists who hide behind their religion & justify their actions with horsecrap "holy war" on "infidels" rhetoric. I seriously doubt anyone who died in any of those terrorist acts had committed any offense toward muslims or the entire middle eastern region as a whole! Most of them probably didn't even know jack about these "organizations". Like I said...unprovoked act of war against civilians and civilian targets. Let them eat the damn oil! I am pissed that my tax dollars have supported these groups, trained them , armed them, fed them, and on and on....I would be happy to pay for their funeral though! Cardboard box = $1.50, bullet = about $0.50, payback for WTC & dead civilians = PRICELESS!

np
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

-soon to come-
0.1 yearling ball pythons

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Edited for TOS violation

Edited on May 19, 2004 at 00:22:52 by PHGinger.

What do you mean "blame the whole for the actions of one"? Original post = "ADOPT A TERRORIST" NOT "ADOPT A MUSLIM"! By the way there are A LOT more than 1. As far as your other comments about Islam being a religion of peace...true enough. All religions are about peace 'till you disagree with them! This is not about a religion, it is about a group of people who have taken it upon themselves to commit an unprovoked attack on another group of people. However, I aim my comments toward their religion simply because it is their public justification for their activities. I never blamed the muslim religion for these sorry pieces of dung!

you are implying in most of your posts that all arabs are bad.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

-soon to come-
0.1 yearling ball pythons

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Edited for TOS violation

Edited on May 19, 2004 at 00:25:38 by PHGinger.

And you are implying that you actually know what the hell you are talking about! NO WHERE IN MY POST IS THERE ANY MENTION OF ALL ARABS BEING BAD. One more time.."ADOPT A TERRORIST"! Stay in school and get all sides before simply regurgitating some crap you heard from someone or somewhere else. There is no implication of anything...I stated everything quite clearly.

The bin ladens are one of the MOST resectful saudi families. Osama Was exiled from HIS OWN FAMILY and Saudi Arabia YEARS ago. A few of Bin Ladens brothers (he has like 77 siblings) were respectful businessman in the US before 9/11, but they had to leave because of fear for their lives. Why? because of people like you implying that all the Bin Laden's are bad and all Saudis are bad. almost Every family has a bad seed, and when you have almost 80 kids it does not surprise me that one of them is bad.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

-soon to come-
0.1 yearling ball pythons

My image Gallery

Edited for TOS violation

Edited on May 19, 2004 at 00:22:17 by PHGinger.

no modern culture takes war in the name of < insert deity here >. The arabs who kill innocent people "in the name of god" are not good moslems. Islam is a religion of peace, but most practitioners of Islam do not practice as they are told.
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

-wanted-
1.0 carrot head tremper giant albino leopard geckos
1.1 or 1.2 yellow ackies
1 blood python

-soon to come-
0.1 yearling ball pythons

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someone who sees the truth and can make really funny jokes about it. I see you've been attacked by the " poor Muslim terrorists crowd" so I'll leave you with this....

Whats the difference between an American soldier and an Iraqi soldier?.............

about three feet if you keep the little bas^&*ds on a leash!

Tom

You are what...14 ...great, you can look up a word in the dictionary. Here's another for you to look up "paradox". When you are done with that one try "presumption" and lastly look this one up "substantiate". Do not make an inference where no inference was necessary. If anything, your assumption shows what you really believe to be true.

Posted by: lilroach56 at Mon May 17 19:37:12 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

no modern culture takes war in the name of < insert deity here >. The arabs who kill innocent people "in the name of god" are not good moslems. Islam is a religion of peace, but most practitioners of Islam do not practice as they are told.
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Funny...I don't remember ME saying (or even "implying"anything about "most" muslims not conducting their lives as their religion indicates them to live, but YOU sure did! I did however state my dislike of "extremists". Want a little mustard or relish with those words?

This is simply another case of ignorance.

~~Dusty Windom
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So Many Alleles, So Little Time...!
@
~~The Gecko Barn~~

Once again...someone is a little confused on what "ignorance" is. This has nothing to do with ignorance, it is my opinion about how a situation could be dealt with. I wouldn't disagree if someone called me "intolerant", oh wait...I already stated I was not a very tolerant person. Feel free to disagree, just don't resort to calling someone ignorant because your view happens to be different. I believe you accused another poster (sobek) on this forum of doing the same thing you are doing...smacks of hypocrisy & doesn't reflect well on you. Make your point or state an alternate opinion. Considering your lack of knowledge about my experiences & background, one may accurately state you are also ignorant!

>someone is a little confused on what "ignorance" is.

Yes, I do believe you are. I am well aware of what the word means. If I weren't, I wouldn't be a very good English teacher.

I'll concede that, yes, I'm ignorant of your background.

As for my responses to sobek, he made several rather extremist suggestions - and, at times, very insulting. I haven't seen him suggest anything as extreme as what you have posted.

What is ignorant about your thread is the way that you are suggesting that one culture deal with another. When the Europeans invaded the Americas, they forced their cultures onto the Native Americans. Do you know how many Native American tribes and cultures existed before the Europeans came here? Probably not - no one does because so many of them were killed by the Europeans' ignorance. Native American cultures were also killed off and/or suppressed by European ignorance. Europeans believed their own culture was better. Reading what you wrote in your original thread, this is the impression you leave on the readers of it.

Do not lecture me on what ignorance is. I know perfectly well. I deal with it everyday, including on this board.

If you do not wish people to call you ignorant, don't post such ignorance-filled threads.

~~Dusty Windom
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So Many Alleles, So Little Time...!
@
~~The Gecko Barn~~

You are right, how dare I come up with NON VIOLENT methods of treating others that have inflicted tremendous death & destruction on my neighbors. It would be more enlightened of me to say an "eye for an eye... Let's bomb 'em to hell, making sure we hit as many unarmed civilians as humanly possible." Or better yet how about the really enlightened "Can't we all just get along? Why all this hostility? Let's all just try to understand each other & every time you commit an act of war against us, we will redouble our efforts to understand your anger. And we will just turn the other cheek because that is how you will understand we feel no ill will toward you. We want peace, even if it means you kill a large number of us & disrupt (how about cripple) the economic stability of my country."
Have I said anything about one culture being superior to any other? Not yet...but here it comes - I love American culture (most of it anyway), I would not want to live anywhere where females are treated like property or less than human. Or where people are imprisoned for not following the "party line" or where the law of the land is dictated by religious fanatics! Many Arab countries standard of living is well below the standard of life we enjoy here in the US. Whole populations live oppressed lives.
Don't compare this conflict to the annihilation of native Americans! What we have in this present situation is an unprovoked attack against civilians, we retain the right to respond. I am pretty sure most arabs would rather we drop a ham on them than a tomahawk missile. They may be offended, but that sure beats being dead by a wide margin!

Did I ever chastise you for being Non-Violent? No.

>I love American culture (most of it anyway), I would not want
>to live anywhere where females are treated like property or
>less than human. Or where people are imprisoned for not
>following the "party line" or where the law of the land is
>dictated by religious fanatics! Many Arab countries standard
>of living is well below the standard of life we enjoy here in
>the US. Whole populations live oppressed lives.

I agree. I'd prefer to live here than there. If I did live there, then I couldn't do much. But don't forget - up until only the early 19th century, women in the USA had no rights. No, we didn't have to keep our faces covered, but that's about the only difference. We were the property of either our fathers or our husbands, or the eldest brother, uncle, or whatever man the woman was left to in case of one of their deaths. Even in the 1950s, women were still treated as property - legally, we had the same rights, but we were still expected to stay in the home. Even today, in the USA, the woman is not considered the equal of the man. The last statistic I heard was that, for every $1.00 that a man earned, a woman only earned $0.75.

No, I'm not putting the USA down. I love it here. I am simply pointing out that we're not all that different, at least in our recent past.

My statement about ignorance stemmed from your putting down of their cultural beliefs. Now that I think of it and reread the post yet again, obviously, you're NOT ignorant. I do apologize for that mistake (count your stars because I don't often admit that, according to my fiancee -- but I still know very well what the term means). If you were ignorant, you wouldn't know how to offend their cultural standards in everyway possible.

But throwing our culture in their faces like that IS ignorant. When you meet a new person, do you turn around, put on all black make-up (yeah, even a guy), put on your nine inch nails and dog collar, crank up the Marilyn Manson, and expect this person to like you? After a while, they might accept you, but most people wouldn't like all that thrown so blatantly in their faces. Your post is talking about throwing all the "bad" and offensive things in our society right out front and into their faces - things that they (along with many people here) find offensive.

Although, I'd bet some of those girls wouldn't mind a bit of make-up.

~~Dusty Windom
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So Many Alleles, So Little Time...!
@
~~The Gecko Barn~~

The point of the "steps" I outlined is very simple; the extremists who attacked us hate what America stands for. By going into their "backyard" & rubbing our culture (especially the parts they dispise) in their face is one way of getting the point across. I would be satisfied if the Arab countries that harbor terrorists would simply turn them over for trial or better yet, try them in their own country for crimes against humanity & Islam. After all, the penalties over there are far more severe than what they would get here. If I had to make the choice, I would prefer a lethal injection over a public hanging, beheading or worse. I do not wish all people to be like Americans and I don't think we need to "colonize" any other country. I like knowing our culture is unique and we are the envy of people the world over. Like I said earlier "let them stay in their sand box & we will stay in ours"! I think some people were offended by my clearly offensive afront to the muslim religion. This was aimed only at the terrorists that offended me first! I don't think anyone in NYC (or for that matter, anywhere in the US) slept very well for a long time after 9/11. There should be retribution. If that offends anyone, so be it.
By the way, some muslim women do have make up...American female soldiers can be quite unselfish with their gear. Many soldiers traded "American" things with Iraqi (and other arab) women (and men too!) for "Arab" things. I have all kinds of nifty things my brother brought back home.

When you put it that way, it makes sense.

I know I certainly didn't sleep well after 9/11.. That day, my father (who was a truck driver) was supposed to be delivering a load IN NYC!!! And we couldn't get hold of him.. A few hours later, he finally got through - he never got to NY, thank God..

But the real reason I didn't sleep well is because I'd just had a baby not even 3 weeks before this happened, and, in the next couple of days, we were moving to San Antonio - there are 4 or 5 military bases here. I wasn't feeling too optimistic about that move...

Just curious - What kinds of trinkets did they bring home?

~~Dusty Windom
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So Many Alleles, So Little Time...!
@
~~The Gecko Barn~~

My brother brought back stuff from all over the region. I have currancy from Iraq, of course all of it has pictures of Saddam on it (the thin & young version of Saddam). An empty pepsi can with arabic labeling (I think that was from Saudi), a pack of Saudi cigarettes, a lot of clothing (robes & such), Kuwati & Saudi newspapers, and a 2' x 5' handmade throw rug. My brother traded a chicago bulls t-shirt for the throw rug. I keep it on my wall so I guess now it is technically a "tapestry"
He kept asking us to send him stuff to trade. T-shirts & anything that seemed "American" was very easy to trade. I think he said some of the guys traded magazines like "people magazine" & "jet" for stuff. I am pretty sure the Arabs who got those probably didn't read in english anymore than I can read arabic.

Actually, you'd be surprised - most of the Arabic guys could probably read English. It's a pretty well-known fact that the USA is one of the few (or maybe the only?) countries that does not require its citizens to know a 2nd language. Being a bilingual here is a plus, but not required. In other countries, English is pretty commonly studied. I knew several Arabic guys in junior college (one of was from Saudi, the other Pakistan, and I was head over heels for the Pakistani lol), and their English was pretty good (until I started talking hick lol)

~~Dusty Windom
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So Many Alleles, So Little Time...!
@
~~The Gecko Barn~~

By the way, "most muslims" are in the "arab vacinity", as you so politly called it. Having said that, most muslim extremists are living in middle eastern countries and, yep, they don't like jews or chrisitians or other muslims for that matter. Once again I am clearly stating who I find at fault for the problems we have (and continue to) experience(d). I think the term you should be using is assumption...you are making as assumption, I have not implied anything.

You are welcome to post an alternate opinion. However, when you support your opinion by posting that my opinion is in anyway less valid (or ignorant as some have said) than any other opinion by making inferences about what I have said, then your argument is with yourself...not me! I never stated anything about "most arabs" or "most muslims" or "most" anything! My issue is with a small fraction of extremists muslims who hide behind their religion & justify their acts with BS. You were the one making the statement about "most muslims" not living according to the teachings of their religion, is that is how you feel about people who practice Islam?
Quote from you:
"By your posts you are IMPLYING that all arabs are bad, "adopt a terrorist" that is 3 words your posts are longer than 3 words."

Show me where I inferred "all arabs are bad", please be sure to keep whatever quote you use in context!
My posts are more than 3 words...be sure you read ALL of them.

Once again... this is what I said (this IS a direct quote!)

"I am not out chanting anti-arab slogans and burning flags, I am simply pointing out that I don't really have any respect for a culture that commits cowardly & barbaric acts in the name of "some god-like entity"."

Now exactly where is it that I "clearly stated" or even "implied" that "all arabs are bad" Seriously, WTF??? You "believe" most arab muslims are following a cleric? Where is your evidence?

I have stated at least 5 times, that my issue is with the extremist (who are also muslim) who attacked American civilians on American soil! What part of this do you not understand???

I don't believe, I KNOW FOR A FACT, that a large percentage of arab muslims don't hate the US or Americans. They are usually quite taken with us. I got some great video footage from the first go around with Iraqi we had back when you when still sh!tting in your diapers. Quit posting crap that you got from hitting the search button on google...the world has been at conflict for a hell of a lot longer than the 5000 years you think you corrected me with. Seriously, do you even have a point? If you are wondering what my point is visit this site : http://lcrcapac.org/WTC Attack.htm

If you can't get it to work, just go back to google (your apparent source for most of your sorry information) and type in world trade center attack & READ up. Don't let the photos of people (AMERICAN CIVILIANS) jumping out of window keep you awake at night.

all christians and jewish people follow their religeons like they were "intended" to be followed. Why do people always turn to a minister or a preacher or a rabbi (spelling? sorry!) for advice. The ONLY difference is that the people in the middle east are bit less informed and thus more easily influenced by propoganda (correct me if I am wrong...that is how I take it, but I am way out of the loop on politics). I think what you are saying is probably a bit hypocritical. I am christian, more or less I suppose. My father is more or less a christian. He committed adultery. Just one example. Christianity is definitely not followed like it was supposed to be.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
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Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

If you steal in hunger, I will kick you when you try. These stand for me. Name your god and bleed the freak. I'd like to see. How you all would bleed for me.-Alice In Chains

Those in the middle east are taught that the imam is who they should listen to for everything. Also they are not given the "whole" truth. In the Qu-ran, Muhamed said something along the lines of "Take not the Jew or Catholic as your friend", but he has also said that you must still love them and treat them with respect. The muslims in the middle east are taught mainly along the lines of "Take not the Jew or Christian as your friend", almost exactly like how catholics were taught in the middle ages. The muslims are also taught to hate each other, the shiites hate the Sunnis because the first sunni caliphate was started by the murder of muhameds son in law. And the Shiites and Sunnis hate the kurds, even though the greatest General under Sunni rule was a kurd (saladin). I don't think anyone (other than a muslim) will ever understand why they hate each other so much. I'm glad the Hashiseen (sp?) are not around today killing Sunni leaders and making the middle east more unstable. But if they were around today, i betcha Israel would be happy because the Sunnis and Shiites would be to busy killing each other to attack the Israelis. B
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

I did read your post & once again I CLEARLY stated it has nothing to do with ARABS. Did you read the entire quote? I got the website from google dufus. How about this get the hell off my tread until you are actually smart enough to make a point.