Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am sorry to those who read my post that jumped on the designer "investments." It just seemed to rub me the wrong way and I reacted too soon. I think these snakes are "pets" and we should take care of them even more so than people who collect things like pez dispensers and model cars or what not. These are in fact animals that put a lot into our lives. The designer industry is in fact an "investment" and not many people buy a piebald ball python right now without intentions of breeding. But I like to see it differently than investment in stock or precious metals or something like that. It worries me to think our snakes are going to be like dogs where we need papers just to prove a pure line. I was a little harsh with my first post and I really didn't mean to be. I guess if I purchased a piebald or a genetic stripe or whatever...I would just see it as one of my most interesting and unique animals and not "just an investment" and I would treat with the care of any of my pets. And I would also make a few dollars of the babies so it's not "just a pet" either. Sorry for anyone offended by what I said before and I really didn't mean it to be so harsh...it just rubbed me the wrong way at the time. This post is dedicated to Mark Petros ; ) bring a pied to next Lee Watson show please : )

Say you own the only 4 of a certin morph in the world.. lest say you prduced the first shocka-zulu balls... they would be worth a truck load of money. the breeders buy them up to produce their own shocka-zulu balls so they can make a truck load of money too.. you cant pay the bills on normals...

Breeder snakes arent treated poorly, if they were they wouldnt breed! besides why would you beat you $15,000 shocka?

I thik in 5 years or so Balls are going to be like corn snakes. 100 morphs for not too much a diffrent cost.. give it time and everyone wil be able to get a $200 albino pibald spider ball...

right...

I hope this helps to rationalize it for you.. If not Ill feed you to Jesus....

Get'em Jesus!

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-echo-

Thats funny you posted that. A big thing I do is purchase snakes that people can't take care of any more, set them up right and feed them better and then I sell them to people I think will take better care of them. Today I sold a beautiful 7 ft tiger retic. She was housed with a 13ft burmese and the guy said he was feeding her once a month and thats why she was a little skinny I really doubt that this snake was even fed that often. She was great and she took an ft medium rat for me the day after I got her. I would have loved to keep her but I live with 7 other people right now and currently keep too many snakes in their mind and a female green anaconda worries them enough. They liked her too but my cage space was running low and I felt I did what was best and sold her to someone that seemed really happy to get her. Lets just hope he doesn't lose interest like the last guy. I also like to keep updated on these snakes and it has not always been a dream come true like it plays in my mind. I sold a guy a pretty BCI my friend could not take care of any more because he is a professional motocross racer and travels a lot so I sold his snake at a high price to a guy that really seemed like he wanted her. I went to see her one day and she was kept in the worst conditions I have ever seen and he had some other herps in even worse condition. I wanted to buy it back but it wasn't going to happen so the best I could do was help him set up a better cage while I was there and hope for the best. After I saw the snake he will not answer my calls to see how she is doing anymore. His roomates were even telling me how they tell him things all the time and he doesn't listen (whenever he left the room for something). I like to think people will take care of stuff that is worth money but I have found quite a few homes for animals including a lab puppy tied to a tree in the middle of the woods. That post was dedicated to Mark Petros because he does a lot of work with designer ball pythons and gave me a hard time about saying we look like high school kids showing off new shoes. But he also knows the snakes I come across and I would have never thought I would come a cross a tiger retic in those conditions this year so who knows. Maybe pieds will hit the pets stores next year and we will find the snake things happening and all this hard work and money will break peoples hearts that put in the time when they see someone buy it and quit feeding once its "boring" to see it kill a mouse. I doubt they will see it as an investment when they find out where their hard work ends up.

Honestly that is one of the good reasons why BP morphs should stay so high...noone (unless they are filthy rich)would buy a 5,000-10,000 dollar snake just to abuse it and let it starve to death. Just like noone would by a expensive wide screend HD TV and let the kids jump on it and color it with crayons.Plus Ive seen people treat their investments better than their own children sometimes..sad but true.

just my 2cents..and BTW all my reps are pets first than investments but I treat them all the same no matter what.
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

Lets just face it...they are not going to stay high because the point is to provide these snakes to people or there would be no industry. Even if they did...whats makes a leucistic a better animal than a normal or a tiger retic? It is sad to see them all be treated how some people do. Its just that the people investing all this money and putting hard work really won't see a whole lot of joy to their investment(except the tons of dollars made) once they start coming to me as underfed snakes who need a ton of help with a dry shed.

Whatever you want to call it, pet or investment.... Noone is going to spend $1,000 or more on an animal and then neglect it. Would you prefer that we called these morphs, normals and then you could get a chance to own one after someone paid $25 and never tried to feed it. I would tend to think that most the people that have money invested would go to greater lengths to ensure healthy, productive animals. They also might have quite a bit more knowledge and access to proper vets. I highly doubt that going with the term pet equates to a happy python in anyway. How many of the animals you acquired in rescue were high dollar morphs? How many of them were someone's pet? I would feel much safer as an investment python, than a pet.
Tom Baker

n/p
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

My intentions was not to start another BP Morph debate...we get enough of those. i was merely agreeing with you on the treatment of animals...and stating the great thing about high dollar reptiles is that pet stores dont carry them because they are too expensive... this might be a good thing because it would at least limit the amount 0f 10 year olds who beg their mom for a snake and get bored with it like everything else...it does not even have to be a 10 year old.I personally think Normal Ball pythons and Cornsnakes are the most mistreated snakes because they are popular..cheap...and easily accesible.
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

I think you all were missing the point. These animals WILL hit pet stores in time. The hard work and money is happening now but in time they will be available to everyone. The albino burmese started most of these big designer trends. Corns were expensive once and now its hard to get normals. I think someone that bought a tiger retic that I aquire at 7 feet and underfed was probably not 25$ when that owner got it. No, I really doubt someone paying well over $1,000 for an animal would do that because they have plans to invest and use it to make money. All these animals will be in pet stores some day and all the people doing the work are going to be sick when they see their piebalds come to me because someone well of age to know better has just lost interest watching it kill mice. MOST the animals I come across are adult men whos wives are making them get rid of these dangerous ball pythons when they have children on the way. Usually they are not in top condition anyway because they got them and didn't bother to research past the 10 gallon tank and the hot rock sold to them at a pet store. Some are in better shape than others...the tiger retic was in alright shape except some marks from being bit by the 13 ft underfed burmese it was housed with. This is not a morph debate...I was apologizing for some harsh comments I made about people calling morphs "just investments." Many breeders put a lot of work into this and do not want to see their animals go to bad homes so they don't think of them like their investment in goldor stock or whatever. The point is, in a few years I will get genetic striped animals people don't want to take care of and all these investments won't even be pets anymore..they will be rescues. There is nothing we can do about that. I don't want you to call them normals so I can get one and that was about the dumbest thing I heard said. My original post I was apologizing for was that people are just investing and making money off these snakes and taking the fact they are dealing with a live animal right out of this fun "pet" industry by calling it just an investment. I was sorry but now I am kind of less sorry since most people are responding by saying these morphs are treated better than normals. They should all be treated great and pretty soon you will see the high end ball pythons treated just as bad by some 10 year old. So you can wish you were a super pastel and your grandchildren can go hungry.

I get what your saying. I TOTALLY AGREE that all snakes regardless of morph should be treated equal!However the fact that you do rescues also taints your vision alot.. Let me explain..in my post I talked about how...let me call them Wild types... are exploited and sold in stores cheap and usually are the product of your rescues.I was merely saying that maybe if some people would consider all reptiles as investments not just merely pets than You would not have to take in as many rescues. Investment does not always mean money. With all of my pets I Invest alot. I invest the time it takes to care for them and feed them. I invest energy in becoming more knowledgable about my herps as well as those i dont keep. I also invest in helping others with questions or comments while browsing this forum. Pretty much anyone who cares invests all of this along with the money. So every one makes an investment and should see it as such.
Now I am sorry I got in on your apology post I was merely trying to agree with you an add a little something..
Back to my earlier point though when people are in rescues wether it be warm blooded, coldblooded or humans those invovled with the rescues tend to focus on the negatives more than positive. I am willing to believe that for every rescue out there there is at least 2 snakes being well treated and healthy.
Even those ball pythons sold in pet stores to very good home were mistreated well before making it there...just look at the wild caught trade undustry its not pretty. But if you only focus on negatives you start going crasy and start fueling those who want to ban reptile ownership..look at peta soon they wish for no pets what so ever.
As for piebalds being in petstores well not in my life time...look at how long ago albinos were found and hatched in captivity..they are still not in petstores. My BRB cost 150.00 about the same price as a Lavendar corn snakes..and still very few stores carry either ..why because avg, consumers will not walk into a pet stroe looking to spend 180.00 on reptiles. Anyone looking to spend that on a reptile usually knows about herp shows and decides to buy from there. There are a couple of snakes i have seen in stores for 100.00 but they stay there for awhile before bought ..not exactly a money maker..besides its the accesories that make the money at stores anyways.
So by the time my pastel babies are sold in petstores you will be out of the rescue business and I will have probably handed over most of my offspring projects to my children.
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

n/p
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

For the record..I liked your post a lot but I do not do a lot of rescues. I am an "investor and hobbysist" who comes across these animals just by being in the trade. And there are pet stores where I live with many higher priced snakes...the albino burm is all over the place. brb's, dumerils, retics...And I mentioned before...I took in a mistreated tiger retic...thats crazy..that snake is not even in pet stores and might never be.

Is how the heck people can read other people's minds? How does one determine that all the big breeders are in it just for the money and they don't give a crap about animals? I don't understand how someone could possibly know that much to make a blanket statement lik that. Telepathy? Tele-pathetic?

Beats me. I think we should worry less about why others keep animals and just enjoy them for what YOU enjoy them for. Who gives a rats a$$ what other people are doing.
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n/p