Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When we call an animal Super of a gene (Hypo, Jungle, or Pastel in ball python), is it known that not only we get a Super from breeding two of the same gene (Hypo x Hypo, Jungle x Jungle, or Pastel x Pastel), but also that when we get the Super (Hypo, Jungle, or Pastel) and breed to a normal, we will produce a whole litter of that gene (Hypo, Jungle, or Pastel)?

For the Motley, have you breed the patternless purple boa to a normal and produce a whole litter of Motley from it? So far, we only know that the purple patternless boa was produced from Motley x Normal, and Motley x Motley. It's kind like random production like when R. Davis produced a strange looking boa from a DH Snow x DH Snow a few years ago. Also with the "Super" Mojave ball python, have anyone happen prove out the all white offspring by breeding it to a normal, and produce a whole litter of Mojave?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Hello,

Here is a comment, and I really hope it isn't taken the wrong way, and it isn't directed toward you but just the Snake industry. This snake industry is a very strange one in the fact that when you have a Common knowlege of Genetics, we all think it HAS to be BLACK or WHITE. The scientific community, and genetisits around the Educational world take quite the opposite approach. They don't say, IT CAN'T BE. They say it IS what it IS, and lets understand it. Not that it CAN'T BE. Also, they say NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE. There have been DOMINANT traits produced from a Codom to a normal in the past in Birds, Corn, plants, etc...... It is rare. Like 1 in 100 thousand, but it DOES happen. It has happened in OTHER snakes too. There are a few examples below.

I have taken Biology in College, and some Genetics Classes. I was always trying to equate snakes to them, but we were always studying other things, and it wasn't of great interest to me. I actually wished I had paid more attention. The last year in school at BYU was hell. If you read my NOTES in class, all they are is IF I breed a Motley to an Albino, I can get 20 Motleys, 20 hets, etc.. If I breed my Anery to Albino Het Snow, I will get this, etc.... NOTES filled with this kind of stuff. NO wonder my Cummulative GPA went down. LOL, SERIOUS.

Now, With my own family being effected by some WEIRD GENES, I'm certainly paying more attention to it. I have a sister with Cancer (FLUKE) and a Mother with Cancer. Also, My son was born with some genetic deformaties in his Feet. He had Fibular Hemmomillia and Club foot on his other foot. We did Amputate and he is doing GREAT now. He is a GREAT kid. However, my wife and I were VERY concerned since this was our firt. COULD this happen again? What are the possibilites my wife and I carry some Hidden gene for this. WIll our Other Kids have this?? Will Jackson (My Son) genetically pass this on to his kids when he has them one day?? Tons of questions. I have learned a TON in that respect. We are not carrying the genes for that. It technically is a FLUKE. One in 500,000 has fibular hemommelia, and they have yet to find a Genetic link. However, THERE still isn't a RULE out that Jackson won't pass it on. The odds are VERY small, but they were Very small to have him get what he did.

So, trying to apply genes to snakes has been a very interesting process. One Eyed Albino Boas. Do they pass this on?? My opinion is NO. Why do some babies have Kinks?? Do they pass that on? Carmel Albino Balls have seemed to have some genetic link to Kinks. I have produced one, and many others too. IS this going on with the Super Motley??? One of the two in the first litter I had, was born with Kinks in his back and we later put him down because he couldn't crawl well, and his quality of life was very bad. He ate, but couldn't constrict well. The Other is doing well, and I hope to breed him THIS upcoming breeding season.

NOW, Here is where all the answers will lie. WHEN he breeds. Is he a SUPER MOTLEY and will he have 100 percent Motleys when he breeds to a Normal? Is he just MASKING the look of the Super Motley, but Is ONLY a Motley and will produce 1/2 the litters of Motleys??? I don't know, but I really hope to find out.

With the OTHER Purple Patternlesses popping out from a Motley to a Motley, my best conclusion is that the Purple patternless is the SUPER MOTLEY. Am I SURE?? No, but I hope so. I'm quite sure that when you breed a Motley to a Motley, you will produce More Purple patternlesses. However, THE FUTURE will tell us a LOT more.

I guess the only way to say what this is for sure is to just Breed them. Soon we will find out more answers to the questions. IT does baffle my mind as to how it popped out in one litter, and why it didn't pop out in the other 2 when Both parents bred. How?? I don't know. But all I know is that it DID. And I know when I bred the Motley to Hypo Motley, I got MORE 3 of them and 1 Hypo Super Motley.

It does certainly bring up some good topics for discussion. I just would hope that others would be a little more open minded. I can't say HOW, but I can say it DID happen. Maybe I'm wrong in my Conclusions. They are just my opinons. Time will tell. Take care, Jeremy

Would you happen to have any pics of the other "supers". I know they were stillborn but I would still like to see what they looked like if it is possible. Thanks.

Luke

i got over whelmed when i heard about the family. i won,t say i am sorry. read linda hedgepeths at her closing comment. that is all. motleys.....outstanding.....purple patternless..wind blowing....you have done good solid work in what you have done so far.....whats next???

you have my sincere RESPECT hats of to ya

james c.

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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

Have you posted a picture of the Hypo Motley? Did I miss it?
I would really like to see that...

Thanks, Chris
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

np
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

This snake industry is a very strange one in the fact that when you have a Common knowlege of Genetics, we all think it HAS to be BLACK or WHITE. The scientific community, and genetisits around the Educational world take quite the opposite approach. They don't say, IT CAN'T BE. They say it IS what it IS, and lets understand it. Not that it CAN'T BE. Also, they say NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE. (Quoted from Jeremy)

If the Common knowledge of Genetics in this snake industry has not been BLACK or WHITE, what would seperate a Super Hypo from a Hypo? What would seperate a circle back/ladder tail from a Motley? And what would seperate an abberant(sp?) from a Jungle? You have given some example, but to my knowledge, a very limited knowledge, one-eye, or kink are birth defect, and they happen randomly, not consistent with every Albino, or every of specific animal/trait/gene.

In my opinion, to produce three purple patternless boas from breeding a Motley x Motley is only half way to conclude that purple patternless is Super Motley. Has it been done in the past with the Super Jungle, or Super Hypo/Salmon that breeding a "Super" with a normal will produce a whole litter with that gene?

A two-head boa may be expensive, because it's a rare DISPLAY speciment. However, it's not expensive for its inheritate(sp?) gene, and it's definitely not a good investment. His parents or sibblings are not more expensive than the same type of boa, of course.

Last year, it was the Mojave ball python turned the corner, after four "leucistic" were produced. Would it be the Motley this year? I don't insinuate anything, just want to learn more information regard boa/ball python gene, and before I start my own little journey/investment

I think you missed the Point.

I didn't say CONCLUSIVELY, and Said it was my opinion. I know I will have to breed the Purple Pattenless to a Normal and see if ALL Motleys come out before I can know for sure that it is DOMINANT. However, I do believe that when you breed Motley to a Motley, you will get the Purple Patternless boa. That is why Motleys have increased in Price.

I don't know why this seems out of the question. YES, of COURSE more breeding need to be done. However, when others produce a "Super" they don't get questioned about it being Dominant. Like the Super Pastel Jungle. At first everyone just knew that it WAS the super before anyone ever bred it to prove that. Same with the Super Tiger Retic. Yes, they did eventually prove dominant, but after that, the prices of Pastel Jungle females went up BIG time.

I am into the mojave ball python project, and I bought my animals before the increase. When I produced them last year I sold them very fast. I even sold one back to the Snake Keeper because they couldn't even supply the demand. However, I think you do have that story a little mixed up. There was NEVER white snakes popping out from MOjaves. I can assure you that. The Mojave went up in price because of the Demand, and the POTENTIAL of the animal. They realized they sold them a little too cheap, and they knew they could get more. If people didn't want to pay it, then they can wait for the prices to go down.

I am of the OPINION that the SUPER MOTLEY is the purple patternless. That is all. The Motley pricing went UP because of the fantastic animals Motleys are popping out, and the demand has completly increased. I'm sure once supply goes up the demand at the high dollar will go down. It is all about simple economics. The nice thing about the snake projects is that people can mix and match them with soo many things, it actually makes the Normal Motleys stay the price for awhile because many aren't doing "NORMAL Motleys".

Same with Albino Boas. Many people bred the albinos to anerythristics, to get DH snows, Hypos for the Sunglow, etc... Because of this, Albinos weren't made in Numbers and it kept the Demand up high for albinos because there weren't nearly as many albinos produced as people were thinking. Your post brought up two different topics. The genes, and the market. I'm fine to discuss both. Again, this is all just my opinion though. You may want to go back and confirm your Mojave source. I am pretty sure the Mojave to Mojave hasn't been done yet. Hopefully it will this year. The Super Should be VERY COOL. Take Care, Jeremy