Reptile & Amphibian Forums

At what point in the breeding process do you all feel the offspring become your line?

If you breed Lemke stock animals for example, are the offspring now YOUR line? If you use a male from the Lemke line, and a female from Harding line, are the offspring considered YOUR bloodline? If I breed Kahl strain albinos to my normal females, are the offspring my bloodline or still considered Kahl line. We all know it is Kahl/original "strain", but does it remain Kahl bloodline? I can honestly see both sides of the coin on this one, and as Jeremy stated below, it would be interesting to get everyones opinion on the subject. Maybe we need an organized opinion on the subject, and maybe it just doesn't matter. Thanks to everyone that takes the time to reply. Take care

I kind of have this worked out in my head...for myself that is.

Example: I bought some snakes from ABC and some from XYZ. Both are reputable breeders with bloodlines named after them. When I go to sell any animals from either offspring I say..."offpring are the result of breeding ABC to XYZ," or "father was bought from ABC, mother was my normal BCI. I will go on like this for a couple of breedings or until the bloodlines have mixed with to many other bloodlines to make their bloodlineage relavant.

I am working to "create" my bloodlines right now by combining several bloodlines (or just animals that I think fit into my projects, not just well known names) to build a bloodline that is a cocktail of characteristics from many.

So, I would say if you bought it from Mark Bell, and bred it with a Mark Bell...it's a PBM produced from Mark Bell stock. If you are combining multiple bloodlines...actually and deliberatly attempting to insert certain qualities from different stock...a Pete Kahl albino x a Jeremy Stone Motley and then breed that offspring to Brain Sharp BCC x BCI Original strain to ad more tail...then I would call the result of that breeding YOURS.

These are just my opinions, I would like to hear what you think, and others...

Sincerely, Chris Olson
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com

I'm pretty much along the same thought lines. If 'your' line of snakes were produced by using an existing breeder's "named" line, your offspring would still be of that line. If you're crossing to existing "named" lines, they're A by B line crosses. For myself, I would consider it my own line if I had either mixed enough different lines that it either no longer resembled any of the single component lines or had so many bloodlines mixed in to make it a moot point, OR if I had developed a certain morph or look (that proves out genetically) out of previously unknown stock (for example, a petstore boa that looks unremarkable but produces something extrodinary). On a related note, selective bred animals would come under the latter example because most likely you won't get the "look" you're going for in the first generation of crosses, it would take a number of breedings and years to develope a consistent outcome from the breedings.

Just my .02
Raven

I dont see any right or wrong either way. If you produce the babies they are yours. Represent them with your name decendents of a lemke line something like that. Your dumerils, you have some oputstnaind animals a collection you have put togther over the years from various sources I think it should be your stamp on them, your breeding for certain things, when the babies are born through your breeding efforts they will have the traits you have bred for. Not traits that lemke or someone else bred for so I feel it should be our name on them because you deserve the credit.
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Jason & Danica
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If you breed them they come from your bloodlines. You put the male and female together. I usually claim them my bloodlines after I have F2 generations. Where I produce the parents that produced the babies. That was my point with the Motleys below. I haven't bred anything from Rons bloodline. I just used the male that he bought and used too.

Again, I agree it really doesn't matter like Jason Said. However, I do consider it in my mind this way. Like jason said, just be honest in what you sell. You can say where you got the Adults from, and also use that bloodline name if you want.

WHERE it gets tricky is if there is INCOMPATIBLE STRAINS of the same animal. Strains are different from Bloodlines in my opinion. I know there isn't a STANDARD, but that is the way I have always done it.

Orginial or Kahl Strain Albino Verses the Sharp Strain. Those are NON compatible animals. So you have to identify them as such.

Type 2 over Type 1. We don't know if they are incompatible or not yet, but we do identify them as such so people won't get confused. Type 2 usually reffers to the Central American mutations. Just so People UNDERSTAND EXACLTY what they are Getting.

my 2 cents. Jeremy

come to the conclusion that there are some bloodlines you will never be able to re-name no matter what?
The kahl and sharp lines are here for good.If you or anybody said "hey I have a pair of jackson line albinos" then somebody is going to scratch there head and say were did this line come from.
It doesn't matter how many times you outcross it it will still be a kahl or sharp line of albino?

Now,the jermey stone line of motleys is the same thing as is the ihle salmons.It gives somebody a mental picture when you say I have a whatever from whoever?

The origanater( marketer) should get the credit in the big picture of things.
Lets take the Brian Barczyk (B.H.B.)line of albino and hypo pyros for example.He bought that project from a no name guy?Nobody except Brian even knows who he was?Yet we refer to them as the B.H.B. line cause thats what it is.There is another hypo line out there that is called the stentz line and we don't know if its compatible or not yet?

Anyways,I think it matters at to who was the first one to bring it to the table and it must be differant thatn other lines as far as a morph is concerned.
If you buy a bunch of average or even above average boas and breed them a few times and get something a little differant that is consistant then by all means name it whatever you want.
The key word here is consistancy.

One other thing,Its very important not to change the bloodline names even after f2 or whatever cause a snow will look alot differant than a snow from another line.This keeps it clear that it is a kahl snow or a sharp snow or a stone blizzards ect.

Anyways,I probably make no cents to most so I will stop rambling.

Later shannon