Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know exactly how old he is, if he is still milking everyday, if he is still self-innoculating, and if he is still as healthy as he has always claimed? If so, what are peoples thoughts on whether their is a relationship between self-innoculation and health or if it's unrelated?
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

Last I heard, Bill Haast was doing fine and still milking and doing everything else he used to. He is probably into his early 90's, maybe late 80's. Of course he in no way behaves like a 90 year old

AP

Very true. My wife occasionally corresponds with him and yes..he is still at it and still as limber as a teenager(it is amazing to watch him still vaulting over th walls of his enclosures. We are hoping to arrange a visit to his establishment this year.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

because he attributes his health to self-innoculation (keep in mind I have never met Bill Haast or even spoke to him, so anything I say about him is purely anecdotal). He has supposedly claimed he has never been sick a day in his life since he started his self-innoculation program. Very, very interesting...

AP

Hasst is over 90yrs old. Infact I think he's 92. Interesting how people don't know about the health part of the process when he's 90 but you'd think he was a teenager trapped in an older guys body! Amazingly quick and still uses is hands "who needs a hook anyways LOL" I'm planning a trip to his facility this year as well.

John

Do you think the venom could have made his antibodies stronger so he would be imune to everything else?i would not be surprised if he lives past the oldest record human

a site on the net where I can get info on his life story. Does he have his own site?
thanks

Bill is 93 this year!
He was 43 in 54 so he would be 93 in 04
And venom innoculations in my opinion have helped him.
As they have for me.
It would be cool to get together and see bill.
He is not to far from me.
later
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Bud

While Bill is a very interesting guy there is no more proof that self injecting has lead to him living to 93 then that smoking and drinking helped some people live to be over 100. It has more to do with genes. Also claims without science to back them up are just empty claims. Self injecting is dangerous and the risks out weigh any benefits. As someone who has been in the business for over 30 years and 28 of those extracting venom I have seen the effects of self injection most were not good only a few have lived long doing it. Most horses used in antisera production live a shorten life and they recieve injections given by trained medical staff. Playing doctor is dangerous. I only post on this subject because in the last 5 years I have help treat kids that attempted to inject believing what they see on TV and on the internet. Some people here even tried to get people to self inject. Two even attempted to write a book on it. As adults do what you want as long as it does not effect others but kids read this forum and believe that it is safe and will prolong life to inject venom. The fact is that no science backs up this claim in fact science has shown it to be with out basic.

Jim Harrison
Director
KRZ

You said: "As someone who has been in the business for over 30 years and 28 of those extracting venom I have seen the effects of self injection most were not good only a few have lived long doing it."
What effects have you seen and can inferences be made about the negative cause and effect any more than the positive without further research? As far as I know scientifically it's all anecdotal at this point (no double-blind studies with strict protocals, etc.) I understand some of the potential dangers but I've also seen research that shows some pretty amazing things from venom and know of at least two people who are currently alive and very functional after more than 20 years of self-innoculation... Again, I'm not claiming that it is in any way representative of a "normal" reaction to the venom but if something is going on for a few individuals that MAY be prolonging life, inhibiting disease, and assisting in any number of health functions it would seem to me that dismissing it as "negatives outweigh the positives" without controlled study may ultimately keep us from saving lives that may benefit from venom or its derivitives. That being said I agree that no one should be encouraged to risk their lives for science (especially kids) and people that choose this course should ultimatly be made aware of the very real risks and also the futility of doing it without above mentioned scientific protocals. The sharing of the information, however, even by those who don't do it in a lab or by those who witness results, may be invaluable to someone down the road and with that in mind I ask you again... Could you elaborate on the above statement?.
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

There have been several studies with self injection published. Some I was ask to peer review. One of the the easys to find is the work on the Habu done by the Japan Snake Park. Even when toxiods were used a large number of people had severe side effects. Also this study was done to find protection from bites to farmers. Effects on death rates was small and lose of limb still occurred so the study was stopped. Dr. Minton also published a paper on exposure to venom that shows that most people have problems with the proteins. These were all done under the supervise of real doctors and not someone injecting in their basement. If self injection was worth the risk of organ damage and hormone imbalance. (I handle and extract from over 1000 snakes a week) I would be injecting. The risks out weigh the benefits.
As far as venom for medical usage . Whole venoms are not what is used in making anticancer and antiblood clotting drugs. In fact the whole venom is often not very clean. We are working on getting standardize rules for production of venom for human use.
FDA has many rules that we follow already. But there has been several cases of people self injecting and getting infections.
Being immune to venom doesn't effect tissue damage and snakes are immune to their own venom but still develop cancer.
If you would like more info contact us at the Kentucky Reptile Zoo. I have a large collection of books and peer reviewed papers that you can come read to back up my statements. You can call 606-663-9160 between 10:00am and 8m daily.

Thank you for the elaboration... I've been trying to research possible historical uses of venom (BCE) as either an entheogen or as a curative (Asklepios, Ningishzida, Nechushtan, etc. as healing serpent deities) and still think that a crude but moderately effective use may have existed. I don't however doubt your word about the studies and would actually love to come and peruse your library if I were not on the West Coast. Would you be so kind as to post the Journal specifics so I can do the interlibrary loan thing? Thanks again.
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

The Snake is journal published by the Japan Snake Park. It comes in english and japanese.The other is Toxicon this has lots of info on venom and its usage.
A non-peer reviewed book with lots of history of venoms is Dr.Sherman Minton's Venomous Reptiles. This may also lead you to more history of venom.
Call or email me if you need more info. I have traveled alot and have spend time with different snake worshipping and handling groups. This is a very interesting subject to research good luck.

Jim Harrison

Basement has nothing to do with it. Robert Koch did some neat things in his apartment, and I do believe he made a difference. The location has nothing to do with it, the VACCINE still works, and has been used for thousands of years. I talked with Findlay Russell and Anthony Tu last week about SI, and they were very impressed with my reseach. They also have reviewed my publications from the Annals of Immunology. It's not voodoo science, it's pure vaccinology. I really don't care if you don't believe in it, there are DOCTORS that do. Tim Friede

How is Dr. Russell when I was in AZ last time he was very ill?
Tim publish your info in a peer review journal thats all I have said. Many people have been written about for doing dangerous things. Other then building some antigens which has never been the argument. The risk out weighs any benefits . Hows your book doing?

Jim Harrison

What do you know about risk, you never took one!. Dr. Russell is fine after a Old World vacation in Europe. And per Dr.. Tu, thank-you for your abstract, you are only a few to have immunity against snake venoms(4/19/04). I'm glad to hear that your wish by your doc is true( Dr. Tu). My book" The History of Ophidian Vaccinology is well under way with over 25 doc. stories of success. Thanks for your lack of vision, it did drive me a great deal. The king of SI is Harold Mierkey, and always will be, my research is part of his and I owe him a great deal. Done DEAL