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Greetings all! Tom Spinker forwarded me to this most impressive forum. Gotta tell you, this is a lot of information to digest!

Okay, so I'm starting to collect photographs of reptiles from the central Florida region. I came across a bulkly little fellow at Trimble Park in Lake county. Hopefully, the Image link below will show this snake image correctly. Spinker believes this is a remarkably red specimen of the Florida green watersnake. It doesn't seem to be a Florida banded watersnake - and it's definitely not a brown watersnake...

When I first saw it, it was on dry land (but very near the lake shore). Quickly, it slid down the bank and hid out in some tall grass right on the lake shoreline. After I had time to take a couple of pictures, it slid off into the reeds.

Can anyone confirm this to be a Florida green watersnake? Are people used to seeing color variations of this snake so far on the red side?

Alright - and now the test on the first post: will the image display?

Central Florida Reptiles

Here's a close up of the face:

Hello,

Greens have a very different look about them. The scalation around the eye is different which gives them a unique look.

My guess yours is a fasciata - Banded watersnake. It looks like a very nice one too!

Check these pics as a starting point:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/fl-snakeslist.htm

Joe

Just checked your web site. Nice pics. And your Revelations is sadly, very true. The Crusade of GW is ironic.

Joe - thanks for the words, about the snake picture and about the website. I've been harassed a little for the Revelations bit, but hell... So it goes, as Vonnegut says.

I really was thinking it had to be a really bright Florida banded watersnake at first. I've seen enough of them in the area this year to discredit that. It just doesn't have anything close to the eyestripe I always see on the Florida bandeds... Now, on the Banded watersnake front, I'm not sure.

These pictures were taken in Lake county, Florida - which is a little bit north and west of Orlando (and a bit south from Gainesville/Ocala). In short, we're well in range for the Florida banded watersnake, but not for the Banded watersnake. I believe the southern end of their range is the Florida panhandle. We're tucked pretty centrally in the peninsula.

Of course, there could be a local population or something of that sort...

I saw that somebody was posting earlier (much earlier) about a "red stage" Florida green watersnake. Have you heard of such a thing? If so, maybe that's the game...? I'm just lost here. I wish I could've gotten more pictures before he/she slinked off into the brush.

But, again... So it goes!

- thanks for your time! See you soon.
Bacchusland.

The red greens (isn't that a TV show too?) are south Florida - Everglades I'm pretty sure. Yours has distinct labial bars - dark stripes on the lip plates. It also does not have that high eye - greens have that eyeball that rides high up on their head.

Does Nerodia sipedon range into your area? Maybe its the southern sipedon, plueralis (sp?)

People don't give Nerodia nearly enough credit!

Joe

The midland water snake (Nerodia sipedon pleuralis) ranges in Northwest Florida, in parts of the panhandle. In theory, however, they shouldn't be here in central Florida. Range is a bit flexible though, I suppose...?

The Florida banded watersnakes (Nerodia fasciata pictiventris) seem to also have the dark stripes on the lips (labial bars, right?). Perhaps this is an extremely reddish variation of the Florida banded watersnake? If not, then the same of a midland water snake?

Here's a picture of a Florida banded watersnake... Does that look to be the same, sans coloration?

Beneath the Spanish Moss

It does look the same. I have seen red variations of a couple species of Nerodia. On this forum there have been posted photos of very red individuals - I think they were plueralis (spelled wrong). I have a red Northern (N. s. sipedon), and there is the aforementioned red greens - although I've never even seen a good pic of that one. Hi-red (xanthic?) seems like what you found. Get more photos

Joe

Mainly by process of elimination, I would have to say that is an erythristic Florida Watersnake (Nerodia fasciata pictiventris). From what I know, red phase Florida Green Watersnakes are only found south of Lake Okechobee and I've never seen any with red pigmentation even close to that of your snake. I also agree that the orientation of the eye and lack of suboculars eliminate floridana. Midland Watersnakes (Nerodia sipedon pleuralis) don't occur anywhere near central Florida plus that is simply not one (they have flatter heads, distinct pattern). Same goes for N. erythrogaster and it's obviously not a taxi.

That is an insanely beautiful snake. I would have had that thing in my hands in two blinks of an eye. Thanks for the pictures.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture