Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hate to say it, but right now I hate my pacman. He scares the **** out of me. Every time I try to feed him he stares with hungry eyes at my hand rather than the food. He just tried to eat a spoon twice his size, then wouldn't let go. His grip is amazing, he left scratches on the plastic from his teeth. I refuse to put my hand closer than foot to him, as I have seen him jump a few inches.

In all honesty I have never hated any animal EVER. It's a definite love hate relationship with this guy. I like watching him, but the fact that he wants to eat me, well it just doesn't sit very good.

All I can say is I should have done my homework before falling in the "aw he's pretty cute" category. I had researched tree frogs and went to get a couple when I saw my little albino pacman. Can you believe the pet store workers told me he was pretty much the same as a tree frog. They also told me he was very easy to handle, good God, easy to handle if I want a chunk of flesh ripped off.

Now don't get me wrong, he is my responsibility and I try my very best to take very good care of all my animals. I know I will have him to the bitter end (and right now it looks pretty bitter). I have had him for over 6 months now and he seems fairly healthy, besides the fact that he is only about three inches wide.

Is there any way I can make him more manageable? Does he want a larger food source? Right now I mainly feed crickets, about 5 large crickets a day, dusted ever few days. I have been trying my very best to avoid pinkies as I really like mice (I know I'm crazy) and I have also been told they are not the best food source. Pretty much the thought of feeding anything besides insects sends shivers up my spine, as I have had most other "feeders" as pets. The pet store told me he should be fed one cricket a day, boy was that ever a joke. I really hate most pet stores.

Lisa
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Lisa

0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino pacman Frog (Phatty)
1.0 Lovebird (Tony Montana)
1.0 Elkhound cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Hi Lisa,

What you've started to notice about your horned frog is its normal behavior. They have giant appetites, love to eat and can be pretty ferocious at times. It can be frightening sticking your hand into a cage full of dirt to do maintenance not knowing where your horned frog is and whether or not it's going to leap from the dirt and grab onto your fingers. It's unfortunate that the pet store gave you the wrong impression about how these frogs behave.

I think the best thing you can do to make your horned frog more manageable is to change your mind set about the frog. If you think you're going to get bitten everytime you put your hand in the cage then caring for the frog isn't going to be any fun at all. Just pay attention to where the frog is in relation to your hand and you'll be fine. If you need to change the water bowl and the frog is sitting next to it waiting for food you can use a moist fish net to scoop the frog up and move it to the other side of the cage. I have to say, I really enjoyed reading your post. I'm going to save it and send it to all of the kids that email me asking if horned frogs like to be held. Good luck,
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Devin
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com
0.0.4 Dendrobates galactonotus 'Red'
4.1 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Dwarf French Guiana'
1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
5.1 Mantella aurantiaca
2.1 Mantella crocea
0.1.4 Mantella madagascariensis
1.0 Ceratophrys cranwelli
1.0 Bufo americanus
0.0.1 Salamandra salamandra
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum
0.1 Chamaeleo calyptratus
0.1 Phelsuma dubia
1.1 Uroplatus ebenaui
0.0.1 Chrysemys picta belli
1.0 Terrapene carolina triunguis

Lol, I wish someone had sent me a message like the one I wrote before I got my frog. Thank you, I am really glad you enjoyed reading my post, please send it to whomever you want. I have heard about them being sold in little plastic cups nowadays, kind of like bettas I would think. However, as you can see I have a few bettas and they are much easier to care for than my horned frog. I also hate to say it but I enjoy my bettas a little more than my frog, they are much more active.

I have learned to deal with him when cleaning. I also have not been bite by him YET, but he seems to be getting friskier, maybe due to summer. I attempted to hold him once, but he just jumped out of my hand. I don't think I would try that now as he really seems to have become more vicious.

There are some things I do love about him. I love the mating noises he makes at night or when I mist him. I also love watching him eat, so long as my hand is nowhere near.

My first post may have come across a little negative. I am a huge animal lover, I was just very frustrated. He would not let go of that spoon, if that had been my hand I would be a bloody mess.

Lisa
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Lisa

0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino pacman Frog (Phatty)
1.0 Lovebird (Tony Montana)
1.0 Elkhound cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

By the way your web site is very informative. Thank you,

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino pacman Frog (Phatty)
1.0 Lovebird (Tony Montana)
1.0 Elkhound cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Here is a comparison of the common food items based on kcals of usable energy from the various food items.

Actually house crickets contain 54% fat/kcal*, while commercial crickets contain 44% fat/kcal*, compared to 60% fat/kcal* for mealworms. Compared to a 1.5 gram pink which is 40% fat/kcal and an adult mouse (27 gram) which is 47% fat/kcal. Pinks do not take a jump in fat content until they are larger than 4 grams at which time they hit 60% fat/kcal which is no higher than mealworms.

The only low fat invertebrate that is commercially available are earthworms but a diet os solely earthworms has been linked to muscle diseases in anurans (see Modzelewski, E.H.; Culley, D.D. Jr.; 1974, Growth responses of the bull frog, Rana catesbiana, fed various live foods; Herpetologica, 30(4): 396-405)

Corneal lipidosis or "fat deposits on the eyes" has also been seen in anuran fed a diet of crickets so this is not solely a problem with mice. As with all other things, as long as the potential problem food item is fed in moderation then it is unlikely to cause a problem but many people will feed a pink or two a day or as many mice as the frog can eat a day. This will cause a lot of calories to be going into the frog in a short period of time which can cause the problems.
Fish are also a good alternative as long they are fed live (or correct for thiamine deficiencies) and you avoid goldfish due to a high saturated fat content.

* Donoghue, Susan; Langenberg, Julie, 1996, Nutrition, In Reptile Medicine and Surgery, edited by Mader, Douglas R., W.B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia

Depending on the size of your frog pinks may be too small a food item. or you may be offering an insufficient amount of calories for the frog. This is dependent on the temperature at which the frog is kept, the weight of the frog and if it is growing,, reproductively active, calling, ect. Here a chart to maybe give you an idea of the amount of food needed by an anuran of a certain weight. (From Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry)

30 grams at 20 C 0.14 kcal/day (just multiple by 7 to get the weekly need)
30 grams at 25C 0.35 kcal/day

50 grams at 20 C 0.29 kcal/day at 25 C 0.54 kcal/day

80 grams at 20 C 0.43 kcal/day at 25 C 0.80 kcal/day

100 grams at 20 C 0.52 kcal/day at 25 C 0.97 kcal/day

500 grams at 20 C 1.9 kcal/day at 25 C 3.7 kcal/day.

earthworms have 0.5 kcal/gram while crickets are 1.9 kcal/gram.
So with a little math you can figure out the conversion ratio between crickets and earthworms

Ed

I have the same fear when feeding my adult pacman. She's such an aggressive feeder & tends to aim at the tongs instead of the food. Last week I figured out a trick. I spray the lid of a deli container w/ Pam (to keep her tongue from sticking to it & to make it easier for her to get the food), place it in front of her, then drop the prey item on it. It works beautifully! No more getting the tongs caught on her tongue, no more fear when she lunges forward, no more aiming at the tongs instead of the food & no more swallowing her substrate when she gets her food. All around a great solution!
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0.1 Hog Island Boa Isaboa
1.3.0 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1.1 frogs Buffy the Cricket Slayer, Butrose Butrose Froggy
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Juice Newton, Olivia Newton John & Helmut Newton
1.1.0 cats Gus & Mena

I'll have to give that a try. There is no way that the pam is toxic? I have the same problems, especially with him eating the substrate.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino pacman Frog (Phatty)
1.0 Lovebird (Tony Montana)
1.0 Elkhound cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

I can't imagine why it would be toxic, I sure hope it's not. I know it's an oft-used remedy for impaction in lizards to give them a bit of vegetable oil & Pam is just aerated cooking oil. If you're nervous, you could just put a thin coat of cooking oil on the lid instead of using Pam. I've also noticed the advantage of it making it harder for the prey item to get away. They tend to wriggle a lot, attracting the frog, but they don't get anywhere.
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0.1 Hog Island Boa Isaboa
1.3.0 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1.1 frogs Buffy the Cricket Slayer, Butrose Butrose Froggy
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Juice Newton, Olivia Newton John & Helmut Newton
1.1.0 cats Gus & Mena

I tried it and it worked, thanks
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

You bet, glad it worked. I was so glad to have found this method w/ my girl!
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0.1 Hog Island Boa Isaboa
1.3.0 leos, Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo (Indy)
0.1.1 frogs Buffy the Cricket Slayer, Butrose Butrose Froggy
1.1.4 firebelly newts Wayne Newton, Isaac Newton, Fig Newton, Juice Newton, Olivia Newton John & Helmut Newton
1.1.0 cats Gus & Mena

Oh Ed, I'm terrible at math, I mean really terrible. Thanks anyways, I'll figure it out tomorow when I'm not so tired. Roomates, grrrr it's 4am and she's still pounding music.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino pacman Frog (Phatty)
1.0 Lovebird (Tony Montana)
1.0 Elkhound cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

YES- EAT HIM!