Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How many sebspecies are there from elape mandarina?

According to Schulz '96, there aren't any. But there is a lot of local variation, such as with the Sichuan, Taiwan, and N. Vietnamese. Mandarina may also occur on further islands such as Zhoushan and Hainan(?) So far, not enough variation occurs to classify ssps, but maybe genetic studies will help in that area.

TC

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Ratsnake Haven: South Korean Dione's ratsnake, bimaculata phases, mandarina locales, calico and hypo taeniura, Western and Southern Plains ratsnakes

Terry:
I heard that not only haven't systematists produced any subspecies but there is a sense that the currently separate perlacea species will be folded into mandarina as a variant.

But I'll bet if the splitters did a detailed inventory of the geographical data and the DNA variants they would definitely have a field day slicing and dicing mandarina into at least a few subspecies. I just looked at the mandarina pics on the kingsnake gallery page. Quite a bit of pattern and color variety even in this small selection. There's a chinese website that shows a bunch of color and pattern variants that you don't typically see in this country.

I hope cb mandarins someday are as common as today's corn snake. They really are beautiful animals.

John,
I've always thought perlacea was a variant of mandarina, probably not a full species. Of course, conspicillata is closely related too, in the group. I think Leonard's ratsnake, previously Elaphe leonardi, is related to mandarina, and should be in the same group.

These are great snakes. I have two variants, Southern Chinese and Sichuan. The Sichuans behave and are morphologically different. The genetics should be interesting, I think. They've been pretty easy to care for and I'm looking forward to breeding them in the future.

I'd appreciate knowing where the Chinese site is located. There are some nice European sites too. Those Vietnamese mandarina are pretty awesome. Might have to get them someday.

TC

>>Terry:
>>I heard that not only haven't systematists produced any subspecies but there is a sense that the currently separate perlacea species will be folded into mandarina as a variant.
>>
>>But I'll bet if the splitters did a detailed inventory of the geographical data and the DNA variants they would definitely have a field day slicing and dicing mandarina into at least a few subspecies. I just looked at the mandarina pics on the kingsnake gallery page. Quite a bit of pattern and color variety even in this small selection. There's a chinese website that shows a bunch of color and pattern variants that you don't typically see in this country.
>>
>>I hope cb mandarins someday are as common as today's corn snake. They really are beautiful animals.

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Ratsnake Haven: South Korean Dione's ratsnake, bimaculata phases, mandarina locales, calico and hypo taeniura, Western and Southern Plains ratsnakes

Hi Terry:
You know I think I could be satisfied if the only snakes I worked with were small asian ratsnakes. With all the subspecies and locale types for the porphyracea, madarina, conspicillata, prasina, frenata (and leonardi!) it will take me years (if ever) with my limited funds to try and acquire all the snakes I'm interested in.
I agree with you about the differing temperments between mandarin locales. The smaller darker mandarins seemed to have a more nervous and irrascible personality. I wonder what the vietnamese mandarins are like in temperment? They are so physically different, I'll bet they're also behaviorally distinct.

That website is attached below.

Regards
John
Link

Hi, John.

LOL, there's so much Asian stuff I'm getting burnt out. ASAMOF, I'm selling a bunch of snakes. Let me know if you're interested. I'm trimming down to only my favorite species, and found that one qualification is that they make good pets, or are hardy exotics, such as the mandarina and taeniura.

I'm only going to focus on four Asian species next year, which I've done much work with. I also am into some of the Plains ratsnakes. I can't have too many when I retire 'cus our new place just won't hold them all, and there's a few snakes of the Southwest I'm interested in, such as the AZ mtn. king.

Anyway, I wish you luck. The Asian ratsnakes are a major hobby in itself and one could spend a lifetime studying them. I think I've discovered most of what I originally wanted to know about them and have kept almost every species (of the old Elaphe) at one time or another. Now I just want to study the general characteristics of snakes, have a few pets, and specialize in just a few species. The ones I have I truly admire and have great potential.

PS: Thanks for the link.

Here's one of my Sichuans. Stay in touch...TC.

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Ratsnake Haven: South Korean Dione's ratsnake, bimaculata phases, mandarina locales, calico and hypo taeniura, Western and Southern Plains ratsnakes

NT