Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've had BAD LUCK this year with my kingsnake eggs!

They were laid 11 days ago, and almost immediately the top egg started to deflate. I tried to increase humidity by moistening the vermiculite (but that seemed TOO moist and the lower eggs seemed to be bothered by the level of moisture)... so then I allowed it to dry out a bit (the substrate) but placed a moist paper towel over the eggs to try to increase humidity for the eggs on the top of the pile. No LUCK!

Then the eggs "cooked" for 12 hours at 88 degrees when the AC broke down. So I moved them to a new building with "good" AC.

But the new building has a lot higher "bug level" than the house, as I raise my mice there, so then I had a lot of fruit flies and black flies finding their way into my almost-but-not-quite airtight egg container.

Finally, after three days in the "buggy" environment, the house AC was fixed, so I was able to bring them back into the house. I also placed them on brand new substrate, in a brand new container that IS airtight. But by this time the top egg and another one had turned a beautiful blue-green color, and two more eggs are deflating.

I need suggestions. All of these eggs that are going bad DID candle with veins in them, so they were at least partly fertile.

I know that some people use sphagnum moss, but the only sphagnum moss I've been able to find turns moldy within days of being moistened, so I wouldn't consider that a viable option or possibility.

I also have another king who is now on day 12 since she had her post-lay shed, and I'm starting to worry.... She's humongous!

Anyway, as always I appreciate suggestions or other help! Thanks in advance!

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~Sasheena

The eggs in the picture appear shiny, maybe the vermiculite mix is too wet? What ratio did you mix the water and vermiculite?

this is what I have done every year:
Just before my females have completed their egg laying shed, I mix up egg laying medium. Using a scale - a cheap kitchen scale or digital scale I measure out the vermiculite and water in a 1.0 to 0.9 ratio, so 10 ounces of vermiculite to 9 ounces of water. Mix it thoroughly so it is an even batch- no wet clumps or dry mix left over. Put it into the incubating box and put the box w/lid into the incubator to allow the temp and humidity to stabilize in the box.
When you get eggs , form a loose depression in the vermiculite in the incub box. place the eggs in the depression and sprinkle vermiculite so each egg is covered or at least in contact with the substrate. the vermiculite should not feel really wet. If the mix is right there should be plenty of space for air to get to the eggs, as well as sufficient moisture to keep them from drying out.
There are many different ways to do this: vermiculite, perlite, sand , paper towels, substrate free, etc. regardless of method what has helped me is having the box ready and stabilized (temp and humidity) before having the eggs. This may help your second clutch of eggs.
Keep us posted on your success- and take notes on what does and doesn't work.
Good luck,
Dave

The original substrate was too moist... once the AC failure was taken care of and I had a new box, I started with all new substrate... I've been told that the best way is if it is moist, but if you squeeze it you get NO drops of water. Last year this method worked very well! One egg did start to get a little white beard of mold, but some athletes foot powder stopped it from molding, and the egg hatched. My guess... if you get a white bearded egg... like santa, you still might get a present of a beautiful hatchling snake. If you get a blue egg... like bluebeard, that's bad, and nothing to do to save the egg. The new egg laying box is better than the old one, and I'm thinking that the biggest/best thing I can do is make sure the temps don't spike AGAIN, don't worry bout the eggs that die due to causes beyond my control.... (I couldn't help the bugginess of the alternate housing for the eggs, and I couldn't help the down time of the AC unit.) Just make sure I control the humidity to be as optimal as possible, and the temperature as well.

As far as the Sphagnum... I haven't had ANY luck finding any around here.... the only sphagnum I've found is in little bags labeled "Green Moss" but that stuff starts to mold within days of being moistened... so either I'm doing something wrong, or it's just the wrong stuff!

I do have some sphagnum PEAT, which I got by accident last year, without any bad results (king laid her eggs on the sphagnum PEAT, they were incubated on vermiculite). This year I've had snakes who haven't seemed to want to lay their eggs (poor things so FAT!)... I did get some more sphagnum PEAT as I felt that while it is not perfect for incubation, the snakes who are turning up their noses at the other options might choose the peat as a good laying place. In fact, I'm hoping that when I get home from work my girl who shed on the 8th will have laid (my hope every day for the last week, actually).

I think there is a fundamental incompatibility of being a school teacher and having snakes due to lay right at the time school gets out! I'm stressing over whether my students will pass my class and be able to graduate from high school, and stressing over the eggs being laid properly, and stressing over the mouse and rat population being optimal, and and and...

URGH! Why do I DO IT????

Oh yeah... it's those little snakey heads popping out of those shells! It's like an addict .... almost cured with the hassle of the egg-laying and mouse raising and etc.... and just about to go sell all teh snakes and get out completely, but then the eggs start to hatch, and the smiles start, and visions for the next spring's clutches start to dance in my head... and I'm re-addicted.
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~Sasheena

>>I've had BAD LUCK this year with my kingsnake eggs!
>>
>>They were laid 11 days ago, and almost immediately the top egg started to deflate

Hi Sasheena,

Sorry about your misfortune. It happens. Don't beat up on yourself, especially since it began before the a/c failed! Some eggs show initial development but don't have whatever it takes to sustain & further life, just as not every human pregnancy isn't successful. From the more experienced breeders I've talked to, I've concluded that when it happens it's sort of predestined, that is, there's no corrective action to take (yes, adjusting humidity in response to your observations is a prudent move; but once an egg starts turning green, for ex., i think matters are out of our hands.) Ditto for the bugs--I'm told, at least, that bugs eat bad eggs and not good eggs, that they're not causing egg failure but responding to it. Would I therefore give the bugs free rein? Not on your life, LOL. But there is a lot of sentiment that bugs or mold go after bad eggs, not good, and don't drag the good down with the bad. I can't say for sure--i even sprinkle athletes' foot powder on the mold/fungus? sometimes, in the hope it might deter the growth from spreading to adjacent good eggs. Could be simple superstition & ignorance, or might work. I'm willing to try.

As for the sphagnum, you want to get LONG FIBER sphagnum moss, NOT sphagnum PEAT moss (both are on the market). I soak the former for 10-15 mins, wring it out pretty thoroughly, and use. In an airtight container, condensation forms on the insides within 2-3 days.

peace
terry