Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was talking with Dr Montanucci last night and he said that Coast horned lizards do not have territories, they have home ranges that are not protected against other coast horned lizards. He said that the coast horned lizard is deffinately in trouble if you look at the whole picture. He stated 40 years ago he used to be able to go out and see over 100 CHL's in an hour on the alkalie flats(I think that is what he said ???) in CA. Now they are far less common and locally extinct in a lot of areas. He said you could see 2 or more males eating off the same ant hill. He was unsure of the other species as most of his research was on CHL's. He did say that homosexuality was quite common in CHL's as you would often see males mounting males but then they would turn around and eat off the same ant hill so he doubted it was an agonistic behavior. He stated that he did not think there was territory aggression in a lot of the horned lizards but there has been a lot of new research done that he is not up on as a lot of his work is on taxonomy now.
Tom

I have never observed overly outward aggression in CHLs either, resources seem far more abundant in their habitat than in other species. I have observed a male that ate a hatchling. Cannabalisim or mistaken prey? The mounting of males to other males could be a dominant factor not homosexuality. Male and female body and head displays are different and receptive females will not put up a fight in mating and usually invite the male with licking and tail raising. Maybe the one male was mounting the other male to try and ward him off but he failed?

Almost all Reptiles and amphibians have declined in CA and almost all have become locally extinct in many of the highly developed areas. Without a doubt their were many more HLs 40 years ago. Thankfully much of the CHLs habitat occurs in National Parks and Monuments, Preserves, Military areas and National Forests as well as BLM. It already enjoys much protection. More preserves are needed in mcalli habitat as well as in the Mexican phrynosoma species because they are the least protected.

Tom 95% of my experience with reptiles was in California, I can vouge for the fact that they are declining. It's not always clear to me that encroachment from mankind is the only factor. In several of my study sites in Riverside and Palmdale I once told Lester that it wasn't unsual in late August early September to see 25 or more babies in one spot that I often would hike through and observe. Over the years that did depleate, and the last year which was two years ago that I actually went out to make observations, I went three weekends in a row and saw 5 horned toads between all three. I know that's not scientific but I can tell you this it started becoming suprising when I did run into a horned toad as opposed to expecting to see them. I have kept many males and femals together in a large outside cage and there is a type of postuing I have osrved but I've never seen real agression. Also I also had a large male horned lizard eat one of my prize orcutti swift babies that I had bread and the famale laid eggs and they hatched successfully. I held this one back and let all the rest go, and I was cleaning the cage I put it into the horned lizard cage temporarily and I turned around to find a tail hanging out of the male horned toads mouth and then gulp gulp and it was gone. I have found large male horned lizards around sand uta areas as well, so I wonder if they do eat an occassional lizard? I don't know, just like Jeff said probably mistaken prey. Just thought I'd chime in as I have had a lot of great times with California Horned Lizards. I'm sure there are some pristine places that still hold a fair amount, but even in the wild I think there is some other factor that is effecting there demise. So my question, if we protect them (and I think they should be)what is this really going to do with sustaining populations? There seems to be so many factors that come into play, I know Lester has made mention of other factors as well including pets amd ferral pets. Cheers!