Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello all,,i have recently aquired 4 chameleons ,,i dunno what kind ,,but they come from africa-middle east,,,

they seem very very tired and weak,,can someone please identify them

and these are my first chameleons so my knowledge is very very basic so if someone could give me some tips

i know i shouldve researched about them before i got them but i got them from a petstore who didnt know how to take care of them,,,3 chameleons were already dead in the tank so i took the rest for free,,,

thanks for any help

they are veiled...definetly...i would try to get them some pinhead crickets dusted in a calcium...and try to hydrate them with pedialite and water....go to google search engine and search "care sheet for Veiled Chameleon(s)"

heres mine....good lukc keep us posted

ps - they are from yemen/saudi arabia

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~David - KDRKreatures
My Main Herps-
1.2 Bearded dragons (Ralph, Artemis, Cheech)
1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Chiquito)
1.0 Ringneck Snake (Striker)
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles (Athena and Mercury)

KDRKreatures-Home Page
My Email

Oh my! How sad! You need expert advice! (thus the names in heading) as I can only offer support and to commend you for taking them on. Kim (aka icequeen) did a rescue for her Zoe and was able to bring him around via this forum so listen to what they say. I will guess that hydration is the top priority here until you get more input from others.

Where do you live? Below is a link on finding a herp vet so maybe you have one nearby. Damn - pet stores can really suck! Three already dead in the tank????

Please keep us posted and I am thinking of you - with a tear in my eye

lele
Herp vets

http://groups.msn.com/ChameleonParadise/yourwebpage.msnw
Start here,others will help you also,soon.Ice Queen has a good recipe
stnman--HD tech

Hi-

Well the pic is not that great, but from what I can make out they do look like veileds. I am going to need more info from you before I can offer my advise, but from the looks of things you will need a vet ASAP. In the mean time this is what we need to know to help keep things from getting worse while you make a vet appointment;

1. What you are keeping them in, what is the basking temp, what is the humidity?

2. How old are they and are they all being kept in the same cage?

3. Do you have a basking bulb, do you have a UVB 5.0 or higher fluorescent bulb, do you have a dripper?

4. What if anything are they eating?

5. Are they making any noise, do you see mucous in there mouth are they gaping allot, are the eyes shut most or all of the time?

These answers will help to make sure they are first being housed correctly. My guess as far as what is wrong with them is quiet a lot. They are dehydrated, probably have one or more of the following problems, MBD (metabolic bone disease), URI (upper repertory infection) and are VERY stressed out, may have kidney and or liver problems. I am in no way a vet, and a I offer my opinion on what is wrong based on the common problems found with sick pet shop chameleons who have no clue on how to care for chameleons and sell them only to try and make money off them. After you post your answers we can help you out more and offer some advise, BUT you NEED A VET ASAP. Lele posted a link on finding a good herp vet in your area that is a good start if you don't know of one already. This forum is a good start. Hope this helps!
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John @ Chameleon Paradise
1.1 Ambilobe Panthers
1.1 Nosy Be Panthers
1.1 Sambava Panthers
1.2 Rhampholeon uluguruensis

http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymountain/RMHPages/RMHveiled.htm

http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chcalyptratus.html

http://www.calumma.com/Chameleon Care.htm

http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.html

I don't want to inundate you, but these may help for now.

lele

first ok id like to thank you all for replying

lets get to bussiness,,,when i said 3 were dead in the tank i meant in the shop and now as i got them,,,,should i seperate them,,,i mean is it so necassary,

im going to get worms and crickets ASAP ,,im out of them

and temperature is fixed,,,

2 of the 4 chameleons' eyes were closed,,im guessing they were sleeping since it was 2:00 am

how can i tell if theyre dehydrated,,,and how how can i tell if theyre hydrated.

i put some lettuce in for them,,i know they dont eat it but caresheets said they should have some veggies all the time

and if they dont eat,,,what can i do (as a snake keeper,,sometimes you gotta force feed it ) what do you do if its a chameleon?

ill try to take them to a vet but i doubt i can since the one that is capable of treating chameleons is really really far

and i hope no-one gets upset from me because i "dont know how to keep chameleons" but i was just saving these poor creatures
i saved two sandfish 5 months back

and please bare with me

Hi-

Don't take this the wrong way but I asked the questions for a reason, and what you replied with doesn't tell me what I need to know. I need exact answers to my questions, everything is correct doesn't work for us the more info you provide the better. Veiled chameleons MUST be housed in there own all screen cages out of view of anyother chameleon or animals. The first sign of a dehydrated chameleon is their eyes are sunken in, and the urate will be orange. A hydrated chameleon will not have sunken in eyes and the urate will be white. Urate is the colored part in the feces. I don't think the lettuce will do any good, if they are in poor health they wont touch it. If you have better pics that might help! Do you have LIVE non-toxic plants in there tank/cage/cages visit my site click the picture below you will find TONS of good info there. Hope this helps!
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John @ Chameleon Paradise
1.1 Ambilobe Panthers
1.1 Nosy Be Panthers
1.1 Sambava Panthers
1.2 Rhampholeon uluguruensis

to listen to John (charm_paradise)! There are other very experienced keepers on here as well, who have a wealth of information too.
My chameleon was also a rescue, but I believe he was much bigger than one's you've taken in. So I would be very hesitant to try to offer advice. My fellow was 2 years old when I got him.
I have never had experience with baby chams, healthy or otherwise.
You can tell if the cham is dehydrated by their eyes...if they appear to be sinking into thier heads. The other indication is "skin tenting" If you give the skin on the side of the cham, near the belly, a gentle tug...lifting it away from the chams body...it should lie back down rather quickly, and not show any remaining raised area. If a little "tent" remains, and the skin doesn't return to it's normal position, it's lacking elastiscity meaning dehydration.
I do also believe that getting some fluids into them is critical. Dehydration can lead to a whole host of other problems.
I use fluker farms repta-aide with my cham. It can be diluted when the cham is really unwell, offering hydration and nutrition.
I syringe feed and water my Zoe, every day (and have for the last 3 months...so be prepared for a potentially LONNNNG haul with your new family members!)
But as far as force feeding a baby...I'm at a loss on how to do that.
Good luck to you, and keep us posted on how things turn out.
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Kim

one which was almost dead ,,,,too tired to move or open his eyes which were so deep,,,,,i opened the mouth from the side and sprayed water,,,,and now he's so much better,,hes drinking alone and he opened his eyes and he can actually move ,,,im getting crickets after about 45 minutes maximumum but what if they dont eat,,can someone tell me what to do

and ive seen pics online,,,colors are tottally different how come?

i have one that is dark teal,,,one is light teal and one who changes colors from light to dark brown,,,,nothing like ive seen online

I don't know if crickets are the thing to start with when those poor babies are so bad off.
You really should consider a dietary supplement...such as the repta-aide, or jump start.
Thin it down considerably, and try giving it to them through a small gauge eye dropper, or small syringe without the needle.
I'm not sure of their size...but I get the impression that they are quite small...is that correct?
Also, rather than spraying the water at them (which will get all over the cham, and potentially lower their body temperature) perhaps you could give very small drips of water, into their mouthes, or drip in onto their noses, and let them drink it from there. Just make sure you don't flood the nostrils, and cause them to aspirate.
My personal experience with trying to force feed crickets was horrendous. Stressful both him and me!
Once the repta aide was available in my area...it made all the difference in the world.
When Zoe was really sick and I couldn't get the repta aide, I used "bug juice" which was made here at home.
Zoe didn't seem to like it very much though.
It smelled bad, and was rather nasty to make.

If you can get the repta-aide or jump start (which I've heard is very thick...so it will need to be thinned down) I think you might have better luck, until they gain a little strength and can hunt again on their own.

Where do you live? Does the pet store you got them from USUALLY sell reptiles? Or did they just bring these in to see if there was a market for them?
Hopefully they won't bring any more in!!!!
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Kim

well ,,not so young i guess . 8 inches give or take,,that thing you said about jump start. i found one but its for turtles and iguanas,you think itll work,,i have calcium spray which is good.whats that bug juice you mentioned earlier.

thanks,, i think they're gonna make it

They look like baby veilds, but I don't see them being 8" long. Maybe it's the deathly skinny look that's got it thrown out of proportion. If you can get them hydrated, and drinking on their own, they have a decent shot. Once they start to eat by themselves, they should recoup. Man, I've never seen a veild that skinny.

but I used to dab some on a crickets head and force feed the cricket to my cham. Jump start does not have enough protein on its own for use with chams. I used it to add extra calories.
I would recommend the Repta-Aid by Fluker. Make sure it's the one for carnivores not herbivores. If you can't find it try Flukerfarms.com they should have info about it for you. I would also try giving some pedialyte and alternate it with water several times a day. It will give them some needed electrolytes.
Make sure they are well hydrated before giving large amounts of force feeding or mix the Repta-Aid extra runny. Force feeding them without hydrating them can shut their kidneys and organs down.

Also you can overdo the fluids too much in a 24 hour period can be lethal and can harm the kidneys, also the circulatory system can only handle so much at a time.
There is a great articl on hydrating a dehydrated reptile at
http://www.icomm.ca/dragon/hydrate.htm

There is a chart in the add that tells you how much fluid you can give to your lizards according to their body weight in grams during a 24 hour period. I found this chart so usefull I keep a copy of it in my reptile room tacked to the wall.
Good luck with them
Sonia

I have only read about it on here, and that it's very thick.

I swear by the repta-aide.
I particularly like the fact that it can be mixed to the consistancy that you need, rather than coming pre-mixed.

Zoe really seems to like it too! Although, I'm beginning to think that BigT is right, in the fact that perhaps he has just become dependant (lazy!) on me feeding him.

If you can get your hands on some...you should definately buy it.
Even to have, just in case of emergency.
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Kim

It has worked miracles with several of my chams.

I have a cham going on three months of feeding him with Repta-Aid combined with force fed crickets. The poor thing has never been able to shoot his tongue at bugs because for some reason it doesn't work. He has tried and tried and it comes out about a half inch and crooked and he just knocks the bugs away with it.
I think the poor thing is so frustrated he just stopped even trying but he is great otherwise he is very friendly and his colors are really nice and he looks healthy so I have decided to just give him a hand with the eating for his whole life.
Sonia

We are all hoping the best for these poor little guys! One other important thing I would do is give that pet shop a wake up call about trying this type of thing again. Don't let their careless ignorant behavior impact other herps. After all, they did get what they wanted out of this...the money. If I were you I would confront the owner of the store. You can do this in a polite manner, and if you time it when other customers are there it is hard for them to ignore you. If you aren't comfortable doing this directly I suggest writing them a letter explaining their cruelty through ignorance (include an easily found example of a quality free caresheet that points out the specific neglect) and tell them you will report this to local authority (it may be city animal control, a humane officer, local humane society, whoever inspects pet shops in your area). Send the same letter to the Better Business Bureau and the inspection authority. You can be polite, knowledgeable, and to the point, but make sure they get the message that this type of treatment will not be tolerated.

marwan,

...I know sometimes posts can come across seeming sharp but certainly not meant - especially when someone is doing what you are. It's the ones who think a cham is cool and does an impulse buy THEN try to figure out how to take care of them that get the wrath of the forum

The fact that you are a snake keeper helps in that you have experience with herps. Believe me...we all are with you on this and know you did it as a rescue so if a post seems to come across harsh please know the intentions are good.

Please keep us posted! I am sorry to hear about the one that didn't make it

lele

.. it will take a lot of work and dedication. i hope you can do it. my husband and i nursed a sick veiled cham w/ metabolic bone disorder back to health and he is now doing great. you will be doing a great thing. remember, 1. uvb light 2. calcium 3. crickets!
good luck! -k

i force fed the other two because if i didnt they wouldve died but it wasnt stressfull at all,,,they were very co-operative,,,i think i found an experienced chameleon keeper,,im discussing the matter with him ,,he might take them or just help me out.

>>i force fed the other two because if i didnt they wouldve died but it wasnt stressfull at all,,,they were very co-operative,,,i think i found an experienced chameleon keeper,,im discussing the matter with him ,,he might take them or just help me out.

I think it's really good that you got them.. Poor lil guys. My baby had an URI when I got her, but it wasn't full along yet. Just to let you know, forcefeeding can be a loooong task. Chams seem to take a long time to get better, but don't give up. Orion started eating on her own, so when they are ready you will know.
Also, if there is any way that you can get them out in direct sunlight for as much time possible, that will help tenfold. You can put them in a little cheap birdcage, a cardboard box with a plant in it, anything really. You need to supervise closely though if there is anyway another animal could get them. Or, you can put a plant in a windowsill that gets sunlight in it (with the glass open) and let them chill out there for a few hours while you are home. I do this with Orion, my bedroom window gets direct sun most of the time. She LOVES it, and I honestly think it was the sun that got her eating again.
Good luck, and all the best.
~Lindsay