Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i just picked up a pair of black tree monitors a few days ago.and the female is definitely worrying me,she has become unresponsive to anything(she had a very slight response when i first got her)her eyes look heavy and she hangs limply on the same branch,she definitely could use a few meals,i keep them in a 4'9" high,4'2" wide,3' deep enclosure,i'm keeping the humidty level at 80% with a 8 hour light cycle,i am planning on taking her to the vet but won't be able to until next week,until then i would appreciate any advice from keepers experienced with arboreals,thank you...

In my experience with acclimating tree monitors, I have found that water is the most important part of their acclimation. Freshly imported tree monitors are skinny because they are dehydrated, not because they are in need of a meal. Monitors, as with many other reptiles can go months without food. It is water that is so very precious to them. Unfortunately, I see so many keepers set their tree monitors up in aquaria, with a screen top. This is probably the worst type of situation you could give a tree monitor. Tree monitors come from tropical indonesian forests, whree humidity levels virtually never drop below 60%. So, you must keep these high humidity levels in your enclosure. If you are using an aquarium type setup, instead of using screening as a cover, cover the top with plexiglass, which will trap in moisture. As for a substrate, use dampened sphagnum moss. It is also important that you give them adequate heat. Do not let the ambient air temperature drop below 85 degrees, and offer them a basking site temperature of at least 130-140F. Mist them several times a day, and keep note if they begin to drink the droplets of water. If you notice they are still not drinking, I would suggest givieng them daily soaks in warm water. HYDRATION IS THE KEY. DO NOT HANDLE or constanly peek into their enclosure, as this will only stress them out, and will only worsen matters. I would suggest that you separate the two, so that you can closely monitor each one's progress separtely. You should also cover up the viewing glass of their enclosures as they acclimate so that they are not stressed out when somebody walks past their enclosure. Once they begin to start drinking on their own, you can start to attempt to feed them. Use mouse pinks,fuzzies and rat pinks at first. Just place them in an open area where they are likely to be found. If you have corrected the humidity/moisture problem, and adequate heat is given, the animals should come around.

In all honesty,(not directed at you) it is unfortunate that so many people jump into tree monitor ownership, without the necessary skills to properly acclimate them. Many people think that you just slap them in an aquarium as you may with a savanah or a nile, and they'll do fine. However, tree monitors are probably one of the most skittish reptiles, who have proven to be one of the most difficult animals to acclimate to life in captivity. It is inexperienced keepers who do not know what they are doing, that lead to the high mortality rate of these beautiful animals. Unfortunately, most distributors and importers do not acclimate them, or properly care for them, so when the hobbyist buys the animal, it is in even worser shape than when it first came in.

As far as vets go, I would make sure that I take them to a vet who has adequate experience and knowledge working with reptiles, not one of these vets who claim they deal with "exotics". For, an inexperienced vet will administer the wrong, harmful drugs to your animals, or ultimately misdiagnose an illness altogether. IT is important who you choose to use.

But, I hope this information helps; I have used these techniques to acclimate several black tree monitors and blue tree monitors. You must keep in mind that humidity and moisture is the key to their success; you must try everything to keep as much moisture in the cage(I would shoot for 85-90%humidity). You must also make sure that they start drinking on their own. Many tree dwelling reptiles do not know how to use a waterbowl, for being arboreal, they very infrequently encounter an area of standing water. They usually drink water droplets off of the surroundings during/after rainfall. I wish you the best of luck with your new captives, and let us know how it goes. Take care, have a great day.

Bob-

The Odatriad

Very helpful post, Bob -- thanks for sharing your experience. There is a school of 'thought' that maintains that all monitors are the same and you keep 'em all the same and you hatch 2,000 clutches and so on, but this crowd only has the bodies of the prasinus- and indicus-group monitors they acquire. Most of the time these WC animals are at the end of their rope before even the best-intentioned keepers acquire them, and it's critical, as you say, to get them somewhere near hydrated and allow them to settle in to relatively unstressful surroundings before attempting anything fancier.

That at least five indo species were included in that 2000 clutches. I guess its all about details.

Actually there was nothing wrong with Bobs post, it was great.

I hear, I do not know for sure, that Blacktrees occur in mangrove swamps. I got that from someone who actually found them.

Your misconceptions are rather appauling. When I say I keep them the same, I do. They all go in cages, they all have the same temps choices, about 75F to 150F, give or take a bunch of degrees, they all have appropriate substrate and hiding places, and lastly they all have moist places to dry places to do their things. Oh and I try to include in the cage appropriate nesting. Would you not call that the same? I do. The little tiny differences are normally included in the range of choices.

Yet, each individual may prefer this or that, and I consider it my job to give it to them. Sometimes individual choices is greater then species choices, and sometimes species choices is greater then precieved country borders(is that a choice?)

I do apologize if you feel bad because you think, Indo means this or that, or Ozzie means this or that, or if Asian or african means this or that. It doesn't, the monitors do not know what country they live in. Thanks of the oppertunity to explain myself. By the way, you never asked what I meant by that, I would think if you were confused, a simple question would help. But then you would have to insert the question between all the barbs you throw. I again apologize if I make your brain hurt. FR

Frank, I said prasinus- and indicus-groups, not "Indonesian". So we can leave out Argus, Bengals, Timors, waters, Dumerils, rough-necks and yes, even crocs. One size does not fit all, and some monitors, as Bob said, have very exacting requirements and die without those being met. You might even need to feed some of them fruit.

Blacktrees(hatched) Greentrees(recieved eggs) mangroves(eggs) crocs(hatched) peachies(eggs), argus(generations) must be included.

Personally, I do have favorites, like all people here. Thus, over the years I realized that unless I like the animals I keep, I do not give them a full effort. So, as hard as it is, I keep what I like. (so shoot me)(and shoot Bob, too)

Also, time changes things, when I started, the indos were the ones being bred(check the records) and the Ozzies, were not(except ackies, tristis, and storrs) So I picked what was rare at the time. Now I could careless what is rare or not, I keep what I like. In a nutshell, after Lacies its all downhill. They offer all kinds of fun.

I do find it odd, that such an expert as you, cannot contribute, but only throw barbs. You have never offered any actual advice of keeping monitors, not on our forum or here. You merely dissagree with others. Or in this case, agree with Bob, as I do. But wheres your advice(actual experience)????? Again, you should ask yourself, why do you have to bring me into this thread(or any thread). Bob was doing a great job. All you had to say is, I agree with Bob. But you are not capable of that. FR

Its so sad when theres a burr under your saddle and your too drunk to get it out.

Frank,
And one (the number of indicus-/prasinus-group species you've hatched)is an odd number, but then so was the five species you first said you'd bred. I'm with you in saying that if you ain't hatched 'em, you ain't bred 'em. And it's fine to have favorites, we all do.

I didn't realize that I'd never "contributed" with all of my posts on the biology of monitors, or the ecology and behavior of Australian species in the wild. There must be a couple of hundred of those posts, sorry to have wasted everyone's time. As I recall, you responded to almost all of them, so sorry to have wasted your time too (including the time you spend deleting them). Regarding information of that sort as "no contribution" is part of the fallacy that all monitors can be successfully kept in much the same way; once you're past the basics that apply to most diurnal, warm-country reptiles, there's a heckuva lot of diversity in this single genus Varanus. In my view, it doesn't pay to ignore that.

Many people enjoy the aussie species you have pioneered, but export stopped over 30 years ago (1972) except to zoos, which I suppose is mostly why they are rare in captivity.

Heres a point, you have not hatched any, so whats that about??? You have no room to point fingers in any way, form or fashion.

Heres what is so funny, What does it matter how I do it, indeed I do it. I have bred australian species, indo species, and african species. Now if you want to pick on me. Why not point out, I have not and indeed I have not, bred Asian species. Man they must be hard dude.

But back to the point, If I bred them in shoe boxes(standing on my head) So what, I still bred them. You have not, period. Again you throw stones on supposition and theory(why I have no respect for you). You theorize how it should be done, while I do it. Big big difference. "I can do it" I do not need your theory.

No offense big boy, if I hatched one monitor, I would be ahead of you. But then I guess thats the burr under your saddle. You know, the one you cannot get out.

Again, none of this is about the thread, that I apologize for. If you ask me how to solve this I would recomend that you saddle up and ride cowboy. You know in the time we have been disagreed on monitors, you could have bought a pair, raised them up and bred them several times. I know I have raised and bred some since we started. Thanks and please ride the horse dude, don't just sit and point at it. FR

>>Heres a point, you have not hatched any, so whats that about??? You have no room to point fingers in any way, form or fashion.
>>
>> Heres what is so funny, What does it matter how I do it, indeed I do it. I have bred australian species, indo species, and african species. Now if you want to pick on me. Why not point out, I have not and indeed I have not, bred Asian species. Man they must be hard dude.
>>
>> But back to the point, If I bred them in shoe boxes(standing on my head) So what, I still bred them. You have not, period. Again you throw stones on supposition and theory(why I have no respect for you). You theorize how it should be done, while I do it. Big big difference. "I can do it" I do not need your theory.
>>
>> No offense big boy, if I hatched one monitor, I would be ahead of you. But then I guess thats the burr under your saddle. You know, the one you cannot get out.
>>
>> Again, none of this is about the thread, that I apologize for. If you ask me how to solve this I would recomend that you saddle up and ride cowboy. You know in the time we have been disagreed on monitors, you could have bought a pair, raised them up and bred them several times. I know I have raised and bred some since we started. Thanks and please ride the horse dude, don't just sit and point at it. FR

Where are your prasinus, jobiensis, indicus, becarri???????

What do you do differently? What do you know from personal experience about breeding any of these species?

--Robert

P.S. - Not sure what the heck you are talking about with schools of thought, but I have more jobiensis bodies in enclosures than the freezer.

I mean seriously, I hope not.

andrew

I seriously hope you don't think it's better to have them all in the freezer, like was implied.

--Robert

n/p

elaborate

that's the pickle i have been soaking them everyday,i mist the enclosure 3-4 times a day,they have proper heating and i keep the front of the enclosure covered to keep the stress level down,i just seperated the 2 today,she doesn't seem to be getting better,so all i can do is wait...thank you for your advice i appreciate it

Hey there,

If you are in fact doing all that you are saying you're doing, then maybe it was keeping the two together that was stressing them out. Despite dealers and importers selling individuals as 'bonded' pairs, the two animals you have are probably from different localities, separated by hundreds of miles(I forget how many km Aru is), and most certainly have never encountered eachother ever before in the wild. Now they are being forced to occupy the same tiny space together. Heck, if I was forced to live in the same closet with some stranger I don't know, I think I would be pretty stressed out to.. So that is definately something to consider..

But then again, you said you just got them, so progress isn't an overnight thing... The same goes for your statement concerning you separating them today, and the female is still doing terrible.. Give it sometime, and then go from there... Of course if the female is on her deathbed, or in your opinion 'very very bad shape' consult with a vet...but as I stated in my original post, it's all about the H20...take care, good day...

bob
The Odatriad