Reptile & Amphibian Forums

HI all)
I have been keeping snakes for about 2 years now and have so far been very focused on my Hypo Columbian, Bolivian BCA and at one time I had a Brazillian Rainbow.
With that being said I am in awe of the sheer beauty and grace of these tree boas as I go through the photo galeries. I do not however have very much information on them and was looking for osme tips from the more experienced. The colors seem to have a very wide variation and I understand thatt hey got hrough changes throughoutt heir lives. Are there any variations that kep the Maroon or Yellow coloration to an adult age or do they all change rather early? Also I have spoken to several pet shop owners in my area that warn me against the tree boas due to their agressiveness. Now I can appreciate that this is not a snake to be handled regularly as my other boas but is this an overblown myth and can they be tamed down to where handling once a week would be tolerated?
I notice they also have some stricter husbandry requirements than my boas but I am prepared to provide what is needed. Locally I can acquire them, but the pricing is some what over market as far as I can tell at around 500 dollars. Let me know guys if you can recommend a specific subspecies I should start with and an approximate size of a first neo cage. Thank you guys sorry for the long winded post but want to do it right. Thank you in advance.

What corallus species are you interested in as the temperment varies. For the most part true arboreals don't like to be handles, however some will tolerate it with varing degrees of stress. Personally, I'm biased to C.Caninus which I find to have an undeserved reputation for aggressiveness as well as how difficult they are to keep. CBB Northern Emeralds with high white markings do command prices in excess of $500.00.
CraigC

Where you ask if some keep the yellow or marron color, it's the green tree python you're talking about. They are born yellow, orange or red and change color to mostly green aith yellow, blue and white patern (execpt for some selectivly breed high yellow or high blue both those are expensive). Emerald tree boa are born red (some rare born already green) and turn green with different degrees of white patern. If you prefer yollow or red one, you might want to look at amazone tree boa. They can be grey, black, brown, yellow, orange, red, some with patern, some paternless. They are also a bit easier to keep then green tree python and emerald tree boa. Go to the classified section of this site to look at the tree boas/pythons for sale, you'll have a better idea what you prefere as far as the look. The 3 species can be agressive but stating with a young cb, you'll have beter chance to be able to handle it. There's alot of reputable breeder in the states of those 3 species so I'ld not by from a petshop.

Good luck!
-----
www.hissnherps.ca
PYTHONS: 0.1 White-lipped 1.1 Borneo short-tailed 0.1 Red blood 1.0 Mollucan Scrub 1.0 Irian jaya carpet
BOAS: 1.1 Dumeril 2.2 Amazone tree 2.3.1 BCC
LÉZARDS: 0.0.1 Mangrove monitor 1.1 Bearded dragons

Hey Jezabel,
"They are also a bit easier to keep then green tree python and emerald tree boa."

Although I can't speak for Green Trees, I keep seeing people make this statement about emeralds and was wondering what makes Amazons a little easier to keep? Both species have temperature and humidity requirements that are for the most part the same. Equipment to achieve this is the same. Having never kept amazons, I'm just curious as to whether someone who keeps both species has attested to this or is it just rumor that keeps getting passed around?
Thanks,
CraigC

Hi,
When they say easy'er to keep,they are reffering to the Humidity,In the Wild and in captivity,The Emerald Tree Boa
Humidity is more crucial,Being found in Rain Forest Habitat's
only,Where as the,Amazon Tree Boa in the wild and captivity,
Humidity is not as crucial, Being found in both humid and
relatively dry situation's,many types of forest and even savanna
environments. So for long term Captivity the Amazon Tree Boa
Humidity is less crucial to the well being of the animal.
Kenneth

Ok, where can this info be found?
CraigC

Hi,
The Guide to Owning Tree Boa's and Tree Python's
Written by (Tom Mazorlig). I think your wright if
you keep Emerald's or Amazon's Husbandry is close
to the same, In Emerald's the humidity is more cru-
cial it must, remain above 70% in order to thrive in
captivity. Where as the Amazon Tree Boa , could thrive
in less than perfect condition's.
Have A Good One !
Kenneth

I'll check that book out. Emeralds have to have a period where humidity drops to around 60% which usually occurs "naturally" with the night temperature drop. I have been keeping them since '98 and have bred them in the last few years, both northerns and basins. Other than this aspect of humidity which is easily addressed I think I would prefer to have something that isn't as skiddish or prone to bite as I have gathered Amazons to be from reading others experiences with them. Not to mention the quite comical picture I saw of a guy decked out in welders gloves while handling his amazon. LOL
CraigC

Ya, Craig, check it out it's a real informative Book,for
the novice, or experienced Keeper,I only keep, Amazon Tree
Boa's and have for the past three year's,I use to keep the
Corn's , King's ,and Gopher's for eight year's, my favorite
out of them was the Bull Snake's and Cape Gopher's snake's
with an attitude ! ! When I decided to go over to A.T.B. I
sold out the Colubrid's. So I could concentrate on my A.T.B.
Snake's with an attitude ! ! There not for everyone cause th-
ey can be aggresive. But there Beauty and personality, is Why
I like them. As far as the welder's glove's go,well it take's
all kind's. Check out Jezabel's link to her web-site on her
post and look at her pic.'s Amazon's can be Held.And you dont
need Welder's glove's.
Have A Good One !
Kenneth

Even if they require about the same habitat temp and humidity, they are less fragile (from what I've read, I've never keep emmie) and more tolerant of husbandry error. I've read quite a few thing like prolapse emmie or the regurge syndrome, never seen such thing with atb. Also, like eunectes4 said, the fact they go on the ground help them to reach a ground heat source if the temps on the perch is not perfect. Also, since water bolw are on the ground, can it help for drinking too?
-----
www.hissnherps.ca
PYTHONS: 0.1 White-lipped 1.1 Borneo short-tailed 0.1 Red blood 1.0 Mollucan Scrub 1.0 Irian jaya carpet
BOAS: 1.1 Dumeril 2.2 Amazone tree 2.3.1 BCC
LÉZARDS: 0.0.1 Mangrove monitor 1.1 Bearded dragons

Hi , Jezabel I went to your web-site looking around, you have
a BEAUTIFUL ! ! Collection. I liked your pic.'s of your A.T.B's
Cuz they are my Favorite. I use to work at a Pet Shop, here in Nebraska, and work'ed with all the specie's you have except the
Scrub Python. Keep Up The Good Work, with your Reptile's And
Greeting's from Nebraska. Where are you located at in Canada
That's the first French Speaking, web-site I've been on pretty
Cool! !
You Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth
3.4.3 A.T.B.'s

Thanks alot Kenneth! I really apreciate your nice comment about my site, glad you like the pics! I'm from Quebec.

You keep alot of amazons! Any pics of them? Are you breeding them? This years is my first attemp, I keep my finger cross but dont expect much.

Bye

Jez
-----
www.hissnherps.ca
PYTHONS: 0.1 White-lipped 1.1 Borneo short-tailed 0.1 Red blood 1.0 Mollucan Scrub 1.0 Irian jaya carpet
BOAS: 1.1 Dumeril 2.2 Amazone tree 2.3.1 BCC
LÉZARDS: 0.0.1 Mangrove monitor 1.1 Bearded dragons

Hi, Jezabel
Thank's for the reply, Wow ! Quebec, French Canadian ! Cool !
No pic's yet, I;m fairly new to the computer, I'm 47 year's
old and thought, i would never learn how to run one, My Wife
Got one for free, from work two month's ago and here i am,I'm
Learning, We are getting a Digital Camera This Week ! ! ! I
cant wait. Pic.'s coming soon ! ! This year will be my first
Breeding attemt also, I have 3.3 all breeding age/size ready
to cool and pair up this fall ! The rest are all to young still
Ya ,I Love My Amazon Tree Boa's ! !
You Have A Good One ! !
And Greeting's ! !
From Nebraska U.S.A. ! !
Kenneth
3.4.3 Amazon Tree Boa's

Hey Jezabel,
Our emeralds all have the constitution of our 14 year old ball python. LOL Nothing seems to phase them. I honestly believe that "fragility" and regurging come from folks dealing with wc's that are "dead" but don't know it. I know I've delt with my share, with a score of 3 out of 13. Healthy emeralds don't regurge and are pretty indestructable. As far as the drinking issue, all of our cages have elevated water bowls. We don't mist our emeralds as humidity is well maintained and there is no need. There is a dealer here in So. Florida who predominently gets basin emeralds that related to me that when he lived in Brazil, it was not uncommon for temps to drop into the 30's in areas of the basin's range. I think that there is just not enough known about emerald ranges to determine what they may experience during thier lifetime in the wild and at the rate of deforestation we may never know. Anyway just some of my experience with them and some food for thought.
CraigC

Hay , Craig
I cant believe you dont mist your Emerald's it go's against
every caresheet, or Book, ever Written on the care of Emerald's ! !Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Believe it. Since they don't need misting if humidity levels are good. I don't think I would get good feeding response, let alone mating if they weren't comfortable with the habitat we have provided. We have no dehydration problems either. That is my point, too much mis-information (myths) running about.
CraigC

Sound's good Craig, I seen alot of your Emerald's and they
are Beautiful ! And look healthy I'm just going by all the
Documented info. ever written on the care of Emerald Tree Boa's
At www.corallus.com there is a lot of written info. If you click on to Emerald Tree Boa's you will get info. on Natural
History/Distribution/Habitat/Husbandry Well worth reading, and
where it say's Online Articles and click on Caresheet's there's
a care sheet written by, Danny Mandez of Urban Jungles, Also a
sheet on, Humidity and Corallus also by Danny Mandez Well worth
Reading. In his caresheet he state's that, and not just there
but anything i have ever read on Emerald's or the whole Corallus Family,Even Though Perfect Humidity Level's are
Maintained and also the use of elavated water bowl's That
Daily Misting is essentual In The proper Long Term care of the
Whole Corallus Family, For Hydration/Skin Qwality , I mist my
Amazon Tree Boa's Daily, and many time's wathed them drink
from there coil's , leave's of artificial plants and the side
of there enclosure, All Arboreal Snake's drink in this manner
I've allway's been a reader and i study a lot,and all Care-
Sheet's and Book's cannot BE WRONG ! ! But whatever Work's ! !
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Kenneth,
We were active, posting, contributors on corallus.com for a very long time before the message board was shut down. We are quite well aware of what is available there.

Danny does not have the same type caging we do, unless he's changed his whole setup. Our caging is based on Tony Nicoli's design (perhaps you've heard of him). He doesn't mist on a regular basis either. Yes, ETBs will drink droplets of water, but they will also quite readily drink from elevated water bowls. If you are willing to invest the $$ and able to obtain the type caging we use, there is no need to mist other than on extremely rare occasions (i.e. new animals, ocasionally to stimulate mating).

Karen Clark

Sound's GOOD, So you are saying because you use a different
kind of caging there is no need to mist, You dont think that
daily misting would help in keeping your animal's Hydrated
and enhanse skin condition, I disagree, Rain Fall, Is a natural
Thing in the Rain Forest, And Rainfall should be duplicated
in captivity, They love it, The only down side to daily misting
with caging like your's Is water spot's, That's why i would never use acrylic caging, I'll keep my rubbermaid's and mist
daily, Because in captivity i am a firm believer in trying to
duplicate the natural enviroment, And we all know it does Rain
in the Rain Forest !
You Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Kenneth,

I'm curious, how many ETBs do you keep and for how long, any successful matings, and how many newborn neonates have you gotten to thrive? Sorry if you've mentioned/answered that previously, but you've made so many posts that I just don't have the time to read them all.

As far as your statement about rain/misting "They love it,", actually no they don't for the most part. That's why they move away/try to get away from the rain/mist and/or thrash their tails madly. Tail wagging in an EBT doesn't mean the same thing as tail wagging in a dog. The fact they quite often taken a dump when rained/misted on also proves the point they don't "love" getting wet, particularly since taking a dump/urating/musking is part of the defense mechanism. We have 2 out of 18 adults/subadults that will actually go for a swim in their cage (we use water as a substrate) on rare occasions, but those two are the exception, not the rule of all the animals we keep. Very few other long-term keepers I know of have animals that go for swims, and of those that do, like us, it's only a small percentage of the number they keep. ETBs on average DO NOT like to get wet.

As far as enhancing their skin tone, sorry, but Danny himself proved some time ago that they don't absorb liquid thru their skin/scales. The hydration has to come from the inside. Yes, keeping them moist while assisting with a bad shed helps, BUT, the moisture is coming in thru cracks in the shed and getting in UNDERNEATH, thus loosening/lubricating the shed. That's why you have to keep moistening as you go when assisting with a bad shed. Once animals are established in our care, we don't have problem sheds.

Iridescence comes from being healthy inside. Healthy ETBs have a beautiful iridescence no matter what, water droplets nad sunlight just enhance it a bit.

Karen

Karon,
I dont keep E.T.B. I keep A.T.B.'s, And i am refering to Corallus in general, I have not breed my Amazon's yet, this
year will be my first attemt, this fall i have a 3.3 ready.
All my other's are to young still. But that has little to
do with prooper hydration , The matter we are discusing is
Hydration, and by the way I've raised up quite a few A.T.B.
neonate's in to Beautiful, subadult Amazon's, I am a firm
believer in daily misting, and i can see that you are not,
I am not trying to change your way's, Im just stating docum-
ented fact, And on misting when i said they love it i was
refering to mine, and they are all fully acclimated to daily
misting, and i will say it again (THEY LOVE IT)! ! I dont see
none of the , Tail wagging or thashing about, or dumping or
musking you are talking about , You must be refering to animal's
that are not use to misting, It's been a well known fact that
snake skin, is a barrier, that keep's moisture in, To prevent
moisture from escaping from within, I dout proven by Danny,
But from many year's of reseach and study, Hydration does not
come from the inside, It comes from the out side in the form
of Water whitch is taken in throgh drinking, ie. MISTING and
water bowl's,Then taken inside, and as for spraying for a bad
shed, I've never had that problem alway's perfect shed's, it
Must Be The Misting ! !
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth
3.4.9 Amazon Tree Boa's
3.3 Nicaraguan Boa's
0.0.25 Ball Python's

I have never used an elevated water bowl and my emeralds drink just fine. Captive enclosures are normally small enough that they hardly compare to a rainforest and the elevation that emeralds live at in the trees with water well below. Water on a cage floor is more than available to a captive emerald. Also, humidity is the essential condition that emeralds require for their respiratory tracts to stay moist. How that humidity is created in their environment can be achieved in any number of ways, misting is only one way. I mist my adult enclosures while neonate to juvenile enclosures have a water substrate that is heated, these are never misted. The point is not whether misting is a requirement or is okay or not; it is whether air moisture is high enough. Just my two cents.

Alex McVicker

THECARNIVOROUSORCHID.COM

Hi Alex,
Thank's for your input.Your 2 cent's to me was worth a Fortune !
I really enjoyed your web-site.Very Informative ! !I really like
your enclosures, Real Nice ! Your web-site to me is The Most
Informative,Ive ever seen on the whole aspect of keeping Corallus ,I keep Amazon Tree Boa's,and I'm allway's on the search for information,so i can give them the best of care in
captivity,Most web-site's are based on sale's,I can see your's
contain's many year's of experience,and your sharing all your
knowlege with with other's,I like that.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

There are other good resources on the web compiled by other Corallus enthusiasts but thanks for the compliment. Don't get me wrong, some day I plan to have animals available for sale. It just has taken so long because I strongly believe in captive breeding and haven't cut any corners by raising all my stock up from captive born or captive born and bred neonates. Glad you found the site useful.

Alex McVicker

THECARNIVOROUSORCHID.COM

I've got what i deem (The Best Of Corallus) web-site's locked
into my Favorite's,and now I've included THECARNIVOROUSORCHID !
That plant on your Home Page,is that what type of plant that is
Orchid, I've never seen one like it.I really like the Feeding
Port idea, I got that on my project list for my 98 qt. and 54 qt. enclosures. That is a really good idea !
You Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Hi Kenneth,

LOL, that orchid was modified in photo shop with actual images of emerald skin...so technically it doesn't exist. The feeding ports are much appreciated by corallus. Amazons actually learn to hover around the port waiting for their food. Emeralds aren't quite that keen.

Alex McVicker

THECARNIVOROUSORCHID.COM

Hi Alex,
WOW ! Ok I see why it would be a, CARNIVOROUSORCHID ! That
is Cool ! Ya I like the Port's I cant wait to get some ins-
talled and working, I keep all my enclosure's stacked 3 high
in order to feed i would have to disturb there ,Night Time
Hunting,Many a time i would watch them hanging down from there
perch,and allway's thought in my mind it would be cool to watch
a mouse crawl underneath him wright now,and with the Feeding
Port that will be posible.So i cant wait to install Feeding/
Misting Port's, I use a pump fine mist garden sprayer the port
will make it's use a lot easy'er.And that is one cool ORCHID !
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

If you strongly believe in closely mimicing the natural environment enough to critisize how humidity is obtained then why do you keep your snakes in rubbermaids?

Hi,I Like the look of Natural Vivarium's,and if i had one
or two Amazon's i would brobibly build one,i am still thin-
king of making one for a Living Room Display,I maintain a
large collection of Amazon Tree Boa's,And i like to keep
thing's clean,and in my mind no other ENCLOSER's are easy'er
to keep clean,and for maitaining Temp's/Humidity there are
none BETTER ! ! At any price,and when you add a few Plastic
Plant's That's close enough to the Rainforest,for me.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Oh, I forgot before you CRITISIZE, you should have read
the discussion you would have known it was on Misting/
Hydration not on how Humidity is obtained.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

I'm more than aware what this conversation was about and that in larger collections small plastic enclosures are the norm because of maintenence issues. What you said early was just a contradiction to your practices which are not in question.

Hi,
Sound's good, what i meant when i said Duplicate there enviroment,where i mess'ed up was useing the word Nat-
ural, I should'nt have you'sed that word and i am sorry !
What i meant by enviroment was,Temp/Humidity/Rianfall.
Not every Plant/Tree/And Bug of the Amazon Rainforest.
There is nothing Natural in my encloser's,Everything is
Plastic,Perch's/Vine's/Plant's Except for water bowl's
whitch are ceramic/china large soup bowl's,and new's
paper substrate nothing Natural.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

The Tropical Rain Forest of South America,Havent seen temp's
in the 30's since (The Ice Age) Except for some Mountain Top's
The Habitat For (Emerald Tree Boa's) Northern South America,
Low Land Rain Forest. Where they do get Temp's never lower
than 60 Degrees.
Have A Good One ! !
Kenneth

Just relating what someone told me. I can't say if it's true or not since I've never been there.
CraigC

You probably don't have probleme with yours because they have the right temps, humidity and everything. I'm talking about a new tree boa owner that might made a few mistake at first, like low humidity or too cold or too hot temps. Since (I hope) nobody will ever test both on dry environement or wrong temp to see witch will die first, will probably never know!

Like the prolapse probleme, I've read it can happen with a too big meal (maybe with a bit of dehydratation?) My amazone can eat as much as my scrub. Does the fact that they're more active instead of staying still on a perch can help the digesting track been more efective?

Maybe it's juste rumor that they are easier to keep. As far as free handling amazone, I prefere to take 10 bites from an ammie then one of a emerald since I saw some pics of their teeth!!! Still, if I can ever see a paternless emmies in canada, I might try to keep them one day!
-----
www.hissnherps.ca
PYTHONS: 0.1 White-lipped 1.1 Borneo short-tailed 0.1 Red blood 1.0 Mollucan Scrub 1.0 Irian jaya carpet
BOAS: 1.1 Dumeril 2.2 Amazone tree 2.3.1 BCC
LÉZARDS: 0.0.1 Mangrove monitor 1.1 Bearded dragons

Thank you for the pointers guys. I have started building an enclosure similar to one described on the care sheet. I will see if I can keep it optimal for a few weeks before I jump on a snake. They sem to be osmewhat more demanding than my other boas and I do not want to get one unless I can guarantee optimal conditions. Thanks again guys and I will be trolling the Classifieds for the ATB since it seems appropriate.

Both require pretty much the same thing as far as ATB, ETB, GTP...it just seems to me that the amazons are a stronger species and do well even if small things are not kept as perfect (hard to tell because I like to keep as perfect as possible)...amazons will go to the ground for heat while with ETB will not hardly ever go to the ground and if they do you should watch for other bad signs. this means you need to make sure your entire cage is perfect while with amazons you can get away with floor heat. Color...amazons keep the different colors and chondros will be all the interesting colors too while etbs will be green in adulthood. It is hard to tell which will look great as adults eventhough they all look pretty good to me. I like the amazons and the chondros personally. and as far as being aggressive...who cares, they are not big snakes and you can always use gloves if you don't like getting bit. Have fun and I am sure you will enjoy your tree boa. I recomend the amazons since I think their personality is the post interesting and they are the lowest price and keep the cool colors into adulthood.

I have both amazons and emeralds. The amazons are definently less finicky. My emerald will only eat on a regular basis when i have it in a reptarium outside. I live in Florida so i can keep it out most of the yaer when i bring it in it goes of feed and as soon as it goes back out it will eat again. The ones i have had were all w/c. The next one will be captive breed baby I want to raise one from neonate. I have two amazons both are kept in acrylic cages. The one I have had since it was a few months old ,the other was breed by a friend and given to me as an adult. Both snakes can be handled freely. I use a hook to get them out but once out they are fine. The younger one is a bit nippy when she is done and ready to go back to her cage. Get an amazon and get some expereince with arboreals first.

we have 5 atb and you have to learn the temperment of your own.
some days they could care less about handling, other days watch out. I would suggest always removing with a hook and my experience is the cocked s neck ussally means "give me a minute to ajust to being out" before offering a hands on incounter.
Find a good cb atb on kingsnake and it might hassen the time to be able to handle.
Wayne Charlene
C D Reptiles

there is a place in ocean side california called reptile heaven
talk to the owern chirs his snakes are reasonable pice and he has alot of experince in all types of snakes.

go to tinygiants.com and they have alot of info for tree boas.