Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am looking at keeping snake(s) for the first time. I have posted before in the rat snake forum, i'm mainly trying to decide what type of snake I want. I don't want a "normal" snake....a red/black/albino rat snake, green garter snake, or whatnot. I fell in love with the Blue Beauty's though, however they are too long for me I discovered. I don't want a snake to weigh over 50 lbs, or be longer than 5-6 feet. It seems that they are most tolerant (I put tolerant because from what i've heard, they're never friendly, lol) of their masters when they are with them from hatchling state, so I was looking for a baby.

I was also planning on initially keeping them in a 29 gallon tank, very soon putting them in either a 55 or 75 gallon. I have heard from some people that if two are rasied from birth they are tolerant of each other, while others say this should never be done.

I've also been told that they will escape no matter what. I've also been told to keep them in extremly small cages, such as a butter dish, as young hatchlings. Now logically, the reason they would want to escape is because they have no room, does this make sense to anybody but me? I was thinking, a bigger cage, with some vines, driftwood, proper lighting and heating, chips and such, they would have more room to roam around, less likely to want to escape, right? (Same principle behind teenagers wanting to escape from their small hometowns lol). Is this true, or is it just my logic trying to apply human emotions and feelings to other creatures?

The following snakes are some that I was somewhat interested in keeping. Blue Beauty (I still want one, just probably won't get one.) I saw a red spotted black garter snake in a local pet store (but I know it'll be gone by the time i'm ready to make my purchase). I had looked at blizzard and snow corns, but just decided I didn't like the way they looked too much. I also am still somewhat interested in a leucistic black rat snake. Are these good options (I havent heard anything about the garter), or what are some recomendations y'all would have for starter snakes?

well...If you are looking for a snake that won't get 5-6 feet long you can forget most rat snakes. A black rat snake will definately reach 5 feet in length with some rare cases reaching 7-8 feet. 5 feet is the normal for most rat snakes. I assume you want something that can live in a 29 gallon tank it's whole life so there are two snakes I will recommend that are fairly easy to take care of and are very pretty snakes.

A corn snake usually only reaches lengths of 4-4 1/2 feet and although rare ever get bigger then 5 feet(although it is possible).They are easy to tame and come in a lot of different morphs.

The california king snake is also a very pretty animal and will rarely get to be 5 feet but again it can be possible. These snakes are usually small reaching lengths of 4 feet. There are a some different morphs also.

Both of these snakes can be kept at temps of 82-85 degrees on the hot side and 74-77 on the cool side. Both types of snakes will tame down quite nicely but with any snake you should always ben on your guard for signs that the snake is pissed off! Both snakes eat small rodents so feeding will be easy.Aspen is a good subtrate for both snakes and can be found at just about any pet store. Why don't you look both snakes up and see how you like them.

Ok- let me start by saying that this is my just my opinion.

There are plenty of great snakes to start out with. Do a search on the forums and this question gets asked all the time. I personally don't think Blue Beauty snakes are a good beginner snake. They are one of the bigger colubrids and tend to start out as fiesty little buggers and can grow up to be big fiesty snakes. The feeding response of Beauty snakes is generally VERY strong. When my male Taiwan Beauty eats (he's 7.5 feet and 10 yrs old) - it's serious business and you'd better have some tongs to present his meals with because anything is fair game when he's hungry. I raised him from a hatchling and he's always been one of my favorite snakes but he scares most people because he's large and usually looking for food. I don't mind using a hook to move him out of the cage but some people might not want to deal with that.

The other snakes that people have recommended to you are good starter snakes, North American rat snakes (including corn snakes), king snakes, and garter snakes for example. They all have different requirements depending on the species. Garters are neat, but most eat fish unless you can get them switched over to mice (usually by scenting with fish).

My personal list of good starter snakes would include any of the North American rat snakes in any of the color varieties (albino, leucistic, brindle etc,...), Mexican Black King snakes, Mexican King snakes, California King snakes, Sinaloan Milk snakes, Garter snakes of the many varieties, if you don't mind possibly feeding fish to them. Also, African House snakes are a little different and easy to keep. There are care sheets here on Kingsnake.com that will help you out with caging and feeding requirements. What ever you decide, I suggest not keeping two snakes in the same cage other than for breeding introductions. They might tolerate each other or they might totally stress one another. It is much easier to monitor the health of a single snake in a cage and if one of the snakes is sick or becomes sick- you have less worries of transmission.

Check out the classifieds for different types of snakes that are available and you'll find that "uncommon" snakes tend to have a higher price tag and more stringent care requirements. You can also see what the snakes look like if the sellers post pics. Also, check out the different forums (like you've been doing with the rat snake forum) for snakes you're interested in. Be sure that on most forums if you ask "Is this a good snake to get" most people on that forum will tell you yes because that's what they've got.

Most small/juvenile snakes do well in a small cage to start out with and you move them up into larger cages as they grow. Keeping a small snake in a small cage means that they don't have to go too far to find their water dish and hiding places. When you feed them, same thing, you want them to find the food quickly so you feed them in small containers (like a small paper bag or a deli cup). In nature, small snakes have to hide most of the time or they'd get eaten. If you put a small snake in a large cage- good luck finding it most days. Again- this is just my opinion. With the escape issue, any snake of any size will explore its cage. If there's a way out- it will find it regardless of cage size. Snakes in the wild move from place to place till they find food or shelter or a mate. Snakes in a cage will move about as well, searching for these things and if there's a way out- they're out. No psychology involved, it's just what they do. The goal is to provide a habitat for the snake that will meet their needs for food, shelter, etc,... within the confines of the cage. They'll still escape if there's a way out of the cage though, so escape proofing the cage is crucial (see the escaped snake forum for stories about this).

Don't limit yourself to just what's in the petstore this week. You may want to take some time to be sure that the snake you get is really something that interests you. If there are any reptile shows in your local area, they're a great way to see tons of different snakes and talk to the breeders about their care requirements.

Hope that helps.
Lora

woah! Thanks for the time put into both of those responses! I am planning on a 29 gallon right now (I have one, so it's lots cheaper for me at the time being, lol). I would eventually build one out of some wooden 2x2's and 1/4" hardware cloth or maybe just get a very large tank. Once it's much larger, that is. I was planning on putting down sani chips, then I have some driftwood I have already sterilized in a 5% bleach solution and let dry. I was going to add that in, along with some artificial jungle vines. I've made this really cool hiding box...it's basically a 1/2" hardware cloth square, with a hole cut in one side (the wire is covered there are no sharp points whatsoever), and the entire thing is covered in astroturf, with a piece of astroturf in the interior (the top opens so I can remove it for cleaning.)

I was saying 5 feet as a general size, not the max I would be willing to keep. I spoke with a breeder earlier and he has a licorice rat snake, and a rusty black rat snake. Does anybody know anything about the disopisition of iether of these? Are they somewhat like the beauties, or are they more peaceful like a snow corn? I don't want one that's going to have a very unpleasant disposition right off the bat, I mean I want to have a first snake one who will crawl around whatever, not attack just for the hell of it, lol.

I've posted quite a bit in the ratsnake forums, but I can't get one for 2.5 months anyway, so I have plenty of time to look around.

Those are both black rat snakes(from what I have read) just with different colorings. Black rat snakes or any north american rat snake tame down fairly well in captivity but you have to remember one thing,these snakes do have individual temperments. My yellow rat snake use to hiss,strike,vibrate his tail and musk me all the time when he was a hatchling for the first month or two when I had him. Now I can pick him up and he won't musk me at all. There are times when he is cranky and will strike at me. This happens mostly when I have to dig him out of the subtrate or if you move your hand to fast. Most of the time he will not bite me at all.

I just got a 50/50 king snake and while he is a little skittish he hasn't bitten me yet. He has vibrated his tail but for the most part he is pretty docile and I can handle him. I had an adult bull snake that was so mean everytime I walked toward his tank he would hiss,vibrate his tail and try to strike me thru the glass! He was also a pretty big snake at 5 1/2 feet long. My dad's friend gave him to me and he was my 2nd snake,next to a garter snake of course. I use to have to wear gloves handling him because he would bite without warning,try to constrict my hand/arm and crap all over me and anything close to him!

Anyway while most north american rat snakes can be tamed down remember that each individual snake will have his/her own temperment. Try to get a juvi since they will become use to you handling them and will tame down over time,most of the time.

yeah, I realize snakes are that...snakes...and they do bite. lol. i'm expecting to get bitten sooner or later. This licorice stripe is a yearling, about 21 inches long he said. It seems like a very interesting snake, i'm going to look more into.

If anyone has any personal experience with these snakes, i'd really apprecitate it!

It's like they said above...just a fancy Black Rat. I've kept dozens of them and yellows, Texas etc.

Almost all the Black Rats I've had were calm "pets" once they got past the baby stage. It really takes minimal skill to keep them healthy.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

"It really takes minimal skill to keep them healthy."

oh god that sounds good for me, lol. especially as a beginner.

tell me what you think about this for a hiding place i'm thinking of constructing.

9 inch cube, made out of 1/2" hardware cloth. all sides covered with astroturf, except for the bottom, however there is no bottom, it is just open, sitting on the bed of aspen chips or sani chips...whichever i decide on. a hole cut in one side, cut smooth, with the astrotuf wrapped around it to ease the snake in and out. it'll be a nice hiding place, look decent, and easy to clean. Any cons to this? Should I astroturf the entier inside also? I was really thinking of maybe weaving bamboo sticks in and out of the hardware mesh holes?

The hideout sounds great! Ratsnakes love to jam themselves into tight places so you will be able to keep your hideout for a long time before he out grows it.

I'm not crazy about sani-chips. For small rats I feel Aspen is better or even Cypress mulch (which I have used for many years and does not draw mites like some claim).

Astroturf can be good as long as you weight the sides so your snake can't work it's way under. Get a couple so you can wash and rotate your sets.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

For hides various things can be used. I use plastic flowerpots that are cut in half. You can always cover them with whatever you want to. They make good looking caves in terrariums and are easy to clean and usually they can be obtained for cheap or nothing. I also use driftwood and hollow log pieces. I like to be able to see through the entire log so that I can see the snake. I always like to make sure my snakes are where they are supposed to be.

If you are gonna make an elaborate tank setup you might want to thing of ease of cleaning it too. Snake poo can get really nasty at times. Provide plenty of ventilation for the tank. A screen lid works good. Make sure your snake cannot get out. Some folks use clamps, which can be purchased at any pet shop for at or less than $5. They can keep the screen lid from coming off. Some folks use heavy objects to place on the screen lid edges to keep the lid secure. I use both.

Also make sure that your setup is close enough to the natural conditions for the snake in which you are getting. A Kenyan Sand Boa would not do as well in your setup as say a black rat would. Okay I'm done rambling now.
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14 Leopard Geckos 5.9.0
Found 2 Leo eggs (JungleXBlizzard) today. 5/23/04
2 Tokay Geckos 2.0.0
1 Graybanded Kingsnake 1.0.0 (on vacation in my house)
1 Baird's Rat Snake (Thanks Vadoni!) 1.0.0
1 Gray Ratsnake 0.0.1
2 Dekay's Snake 0.0.2
1.0 Ambystoma tigrinum nebulosum
1.1 Green Tree Frogs (H. cinerea)
1.1 Gray Tree Frog (H versicolor)

Your through "rambling...? But you ramble so well....(lol)

Good Post,

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I just went down to Home Depot and bought a couple small plastic flower pots. I cut an archway in the top, and turned upside down. Took some bamboo shoots and stapled them to the pot to make it look a little better

You should try keeping a begginers snake first... because it is not worth it if you get a uncommon snake and it dies on you of inmature captivity, so i say you should get a Ball Python, or maybe a Corn or Rat snake, of your choice.

Brandon