Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Have you ever noticed your snakes, or other herps, playing???

Cody's turtle story reminded me of this subject, discussed in the article written by a herpetologist prof where I went to school, probably b/ it was first noticed in a turtle: Pigface the African soft-shelled turtle, who lived at a zoo.

Pigface (I love that name) was a a captive zoo animal, and showing self- mutilating behavior, which we usually think of as a problem suffered by more intelligent, sophisticated animals (larger brained mammals) due to the unnatural confines and limited behavioral opportunities that captivity creates. But luckily Pigface had some savvy keepers, and they put objects in his tank to keep him occupied. Not only did it help diminish his self-mutilation behavior, but they videotaped him with one of his favorite toys, an old shoe, if I remember correctly. The really neat thing was, that if you speed up the tape, or just imagine the behavior speeded up a bit, the activities the turtle did with the shoe - nudging it, shoving it around, and so on - looked much more like what WE recognize as play behavior, lick that of a dog with a toy, ball, etc. Scientists couldn't believe that a turtle (a reptile) was actually playing, until a well-respected professor who is famous for his behavior research wrote about it. You can read about it here:
http://research.utk.edu/ora/rag/goodnews/1996/0808.html

Many scientists have studied play behavior in mammals, and a little bit in birds, but most of them like to stick to the secure belief that the "lower" vertebrates, reptiles and amphibians, and fish, do not participate in play behavior, for various reasons, one of which has to do with degree of intelligence. The popular theory puts forth that play will not occur until an individual has satisfied other necessary needs, including sufficient shelter, food, decent health, comfort, and the like.

BUT, I have always contended that they (reptiles) DO play, but as we are big social mammals, we don't easily speak reptilian and thus don't recognize play, especially in the reptilian world, where most activities occur on a very different time contiuum (individual anacondas can mate for days, and stay within a breeding ball for weeks, for example - something some humans certainly aspire to, but without any luck).

So, I was wondering, when it comes to your snakes and other herps, have you ever noticed some odd behavior that you can't really attach an explanation to, or an acitvity that might even look like play, albeit maybe in slow motion? Keep an eye out for this. I am wondering how much captivity might adversely effect snake behavior (something that is never very "busy", or overt), and if so, if adding distractions, toys, to its environment might help. Or, with snakes, maybe a different type of distraction would be better - say, letting it experience more natural behavior, like swimming in a pool, or crawling around inthe back yard. I don't know. Answering such questions isn't as easy with a snake as it is with a chimp, but that doesn't mean the question isn't important, I think...

I mean, undoubtedly people will accuse me of anthropomorphizing, but there are times where I swear my bearded dragon looks at me with frustrated boredom in her eyes, until I take her out of the cage, or give her bugs to chase.

You guys have a lot more experience with captive herps than I do, so, what do you think? Ask your friend herp-owners, too, I'd like to collect anecdotal stories about this.

thanks...

Renee

i have notice play in reptiles for years but not just in captive bread but in wild ones as well at a pond i notice a snake catch a frog bring it out the water up on to a hill then let the frog go the frog would run back to the pond and the snake would give chase. he did this about 5-6 times and on one time the frog did not hop off. so the snake tapped the back of the frog. i also notice painted turtles in a kid pool with a slide u know the big blue ones. eny ways they would clime up the stairs then slide down and do it all day. also everyday when i get home my bearded dragon will run to the side of the cage so i can take her out and she will run from shoulder to shoulder same with my water dragon.
Crazycody

I bring my conda outside on warm days and occasionally let her swim in a kiddie pool. She definately in interested in covering the back yard and following every minute scent trail left over by squirels, birds etc.
I don't think my snake is playing though. At least not in the sense that humans think of playing. I also don't think my snake has the capacity to be happy,sad,jealous,empathetic,etc. I think as long as conditions of hers are met she is just 'there'. If they are not met then she will be looking for a place that they will be met.
I think everyone that has herps as pets, anthropomorphically attribute too much to their pets sometimes. I do all the time. I'll look at her in her water tub and say to myself 'she looks bored' or 'she seems happy' then i catch myself and realise what i've just done. It's just human nature to do so I think.
Attributing reptiles to 'playing' would mean that you would have to also attribute other higher levels of brain functions to them. They wouldn't be able to 'play' if they didn't have at least a basic form of reasoning. If they had a basic form of reasoning then they wouldn't be eating sharp shelled turtles and mangling themselves trying to. (reference to the pic you posted earlier) or eating prey items that are obviously too big.
This is just my opinion and I know some of the people in here have differen't views than mine.
Having never studied reptile psychology, (lol), I am by no means an expert on the subject and look forward to seeing the other posts to this one.
Also, Renee, some posts back someone asked what the biggest female green was that you've caught down there and I was waiting to see your reply but either I missed it or it wasn't made. So here's the same question again.

Keep up the great work
Arik

It would not seem to me that an anaconda would want to play but if you see some post back with pics of my enclosure you will notice a beach ball. When i let her roan around the room she kept going to this beach ball and climbing on it and falling off and no matter how many times i moved her away from it...she kept going to this beach ball. So i put it in her tank and she "plays" on it at night. I don't know if i would call it play but it is deffinitely unexplained reptile behavior that would not be seen in the wild. It was also thought that marsupials are less intelligent than placental mammals but i guarantee you my sugar gliders play all the time, and they get bored easily so new toys have to be put in regularly, and they are much smarter than my human roomates. I also note that my sugar gliders at 6 months are much smarter than all human babies at six months...i would not be beyond saying reptiles can be bored enough in captivity to play. but that you Renee, now i feel bad...I used to justify keeping snakes on the basis that as long as they can hide and hunt and conditions are right...thats all they would do in the wild so being in captivity is not a big deal...now i have to think that if i were an anaconda i would much rather play in the amazon than a walk in closet : ) (I do not feel too bad for the sugar gliders since they are spoiled and have more to play with than the forest)

As far as having snakes in captivity goes, I'd guess they are probably the least adversely effected by their state, compared to most of the other animals that don't do as well, animals that run or walk a lot, are highly social, have complex behaviors, have large home ranges, have larger brains, etc.

Still, I do believe that there is the potential for play behavior in most vertebrates.

Keep in mind that although play to us is generates a rather specific image of behavior, one that typically involves fast motion, organized sports, social interactions, or perhaps mental challenges, etc. but "play" in a reptile can be quite different an activity than the image that comes to mind when we primates hear the word "play".

For captive animals, the more sophisticated thinking is that not only are they healthy and apparently under low stress conditions, but they have positive (non-stress inducing) stimuli that would encourage play, and discourage stereotypic behavior (like self-mutilation).

I'm not too concerned about snakes being bored, or depressed in captivity (although stress certainly can happen) but captivity forces some constraints on them, we just can't read their minds to see how it effects them (aside from obvious health and mating condition cues, etc.)...perhaps play would be something as simple as crawling all over a ball, or other object for no particularly significant reason...who knows, it is hard to put onesself in the snake's shoes, when they don't even have feet...

RO