Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is it just me or is the Pastel Ball wwaaaaaayyyyyyyyy over priced? Or is it high because of what you can produce if you breed a pastel with some other morph to get something nice. But if a Pastels price is based on the Pastel itself then their overpriced IMO. I've seen some nice Pastels but I've also seen many that don't look much better than a Normal. And as I hear the Pastels really fade as they get older also. So whats the deal, is it because you can breed a Pastel to something else to get a real nice animal or is a Pastel a Pastel and thats all you got?

P.S. I'm not trying to cause any fights or whatnot just wondering because in my own opinion I wouldn't pay $300 bucks for a pastel unless there is something I am missing? Please let me know!

Jason

i agree some people have in my opinion been getting a little nuts with the pastel prices but that doesn't mean these snakes should be 300 dollars. I am in the process of grabbing a baby male for 1,000 & i believe he's gonna be worth every penny. Yes they do brown out as they get older but personally I think they still look pretty even browned out. I don't know if it's true or not but I heard the babies with more orange are the ones that tend to brown out more & the higher yellow ones stay more like they looked as neos. Now I think pastels can spice up alot of morphs & since they are co-dom they can turn it around quicker & super pastels are gorgeous but the fact that I have seen year & a half or 2 year old pastels cracking 10,000 dollars with ease to me that seems out there. For a female I can understand a little more because without her you won't see a super pastel but males I don't think should be up there in price. Neither sex pastel should be the same price as spiders or mojaves no matter how old that's just nucking futs..lol. That is also the way the market is different people veiw morphs differently. Also if someone is willing to pay it kudos.....I don't think a pastel is worth that much but if I had one & knew someone would buy if for that price hell yeah let's make a deal..it's just a weird one the neo prices are getting cheap & competative & the yearlings & older seem to be sky rocketing. go figure
so pastels obviously aren't your thing so which morphs have you been trying to get??

Pewters, Bumblebees, Killerbees, Pastel Ghost, etc...?

Thats why females go for so much.
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- Joel Smith

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Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:51:29 by phwyvern.

yup heard of em all & they are quite nice too but I still don't think they should be that high they have been around for awhile & I havent seen pastels reach that prices like that until recently...sorry if you dont agree but i just think they should be a little cheaper

This may be a bit of a stretch.......but I believe in the end pastels will out live the spider and mojave in terms of breeding value. Unless.....the spider and mojave are proven codom.

Right not with what I know (and I certainly don't have all the info ) at this point the spider and mojave are dominant. I do know that there have been many spider X spider breedings. I know that there will be 5 plus mojave X mojave breeding this year.......so the case should be closed on this very soon.

If these to morphs remain dominant.....they will certainly be beautiful in their own right, but at a disadvantage to the pastels. Codom ROCKS! Your options magnify big time when your working with the codom.

3-5 years from now mojaves and spiders will be cheaper then pastels...if they remain dominant. There is one exception to this statement. unless something awesome gets kicked from a spider...mojave cross with a simple recessive gene....like what NERD has done with the Orange Ghost and Albino X spider designers. These types of moves may sustain the spider a bit longer.......but it will be interesting to watch what happens with the mojave???

Just my own personal twist on the market.....I certainly don't claim to have all the answers.

Thanks,

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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

3-5 years from now, neither will be cheaper than pastels.

Especially the mojave... hint hint.
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- Joel Smith

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Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:52:19 by phwyvern.

I hope it does kick a super.......that would be tuff and I can't wait to see the first post on it........

It could kick a blue eyed Lucy.......

If anyone has the inside info on this....throw us bottom dwellers a bone...

One of the greatest things about ball breeding is there is always something new around the corner....the anticipation for what could/may happen..........got ta love it!

Thanks,
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

i can def agree with that thought & to be honest I like pastels better than spiders anyway..lol

Is it because you can afford a pastel and not a spider...

That is usually the case around here...

*spite*
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

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Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:52:39 by phwyvern.

Joel....the guy was just stating an opinion.

Little harsch don't ya think...............LOL

Be happy bro......we're just talkin snakes here....ball breeding.

Thanks,
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

thanks for the defense..lol dont sweat it the second this post started i knew someone was gonna start their sh#t..lol

I wish we could discuss this kind of stuff and give room for personal preferences. Some morphs just personally fire me up......while others I wouldn't spend $200 bucks on.

Most of the time it's not the price of the animal that get's me excited about the morph.......it's just the morph. I think the money is an exciting dynamic......definitely adds to it.

There are morphs that people will drop 10K on that I'm thinking there is no way I would spend that on that morph. But...I just internalize that.......they like it......and it's their money. I'm sure they wouldn't agree with every morph decision I would make.

What I think we should do is encourage one another....and fire eachother up for what we can afford. For example...your dropping 1k on a pastel (.......SWEAT.....you won't regret it and you will have a total blast.

We have to remember.....we want to encourage people to love ball breeding. The more people that get into breeding balls the bigger the pie for all of us. People that get hammered every time they say something on these forums....certainly will not continue to be attracted to this hobby/business.

For many of us it starts with the purchase of a normal cool lookin ball.......we get the fever and then the fire gets lite. We need to toss fuel on this fire......not sand and water...............LOL

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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

i couldn't agree more..but it's also fun to watch people get fumed over it too..lol i will say the more crapped tossed the long the thread goes..hence more reading for me..lol yes but I really agree people should fire each other up about what they can afford. Oh & I can't wait for that pastel..lol I would have even paid the 1500 but I had that feeling if I just waited one more year I could get it a lil cheaper & thank god I was right..lol

and do you have a pic of it?
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

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Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:53:18 by phwyvern.

That was one of the best responces posted on the forum!!!

cheers,
A
Link

na i honestly just love the pastel coloration..don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind having a spider but i find the pastel to be more visually enticing. As far as affording it if I really wanted one I would do payment plans & work my ass off to get it .that's how I got the rest of my snakes..it's just not on the top of my list if. my snakes do me right I will be able to get one in the near future I just don't want to drop that much on any snake right now

I agree that pastels have some awesome coloration.

I was just saying that MOST people around here get mad at the prices when they can't afford the morph.

Sorry to stereotype ya bro.

Joel
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

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Removed advertising slogan.

Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:53:01 by phwyvern.

na don't even it's all gravy...people get mad about the price & then other people get mad about the people knocking the price..
it's a vicious cycle (Fat Bastard)...lol

I knew it that's why I haven't personally posted a thread about it i was just waiting for someone else to start the drama..lol

stereotyping is no biggy i'm tattooed up so i'm use to the "Ohh my god is he gonna rob me"...lol so I can handle the rest

To funny on the stereotyping.. I have tatoos as well and my hair color of choice is navy blue. Then i take my 3 1/2 yr old girls to the park and people are always givin us funny looks. If they new about the snakes I could just imagine!! LOL, I personally love the pastels, but I've seen some that you really can't tell it is a pastel but I blame that on the photography. Some morphs you really have to look to see the difference though especially in the codoms, such as yellow bellies, and the het ivory which is supposed to be co dom but I haven't seen anything unusual about them in the photos but never seen them in person either. Of course their homozygous form is astounding. From what I've been able to read though the homozygous phenotype for the Ivory and the Lucy's seem to resemble each other again unless you are actually seeing them in person I suppose it is hard to tell. If i won the lottery though I'd be expanding big time!! LOL, if only I had more money.
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Nita Hamilton
4.3 BP's (Ulysses, Whiplash, Recoil, Osiris, Isis, Demetae, Briseas)
0.1 Kitty
1.4 Humans (DH, Me and 3 daughters)

hell yeah i rocked blue hair for a good year .god it was my fav i managed to swirl in green & red so it was all diff hues of blu,blue green, & purple..lol but i'm way too lazy now..just a bald head...got any pics?

Of course it's personal opinion which you like better. I've only seen pictures of either but isn't the spider as bright as a pastel and with a better pattern?

I guess maybe your point is that the super pastel might be better than a spider. I still think it would be pretty close. I think it's a stretch for heterozygous pastel to be more valuable than heterozygous spider based on appearance or breeding even if the spider turns out lethal when homozygous. And if spider is proven dominant then a homozygous spider male might well be more valuable than a super pastel male long term.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I do look forward to eventually getting some of each and using mostly pastel girls for breeders to replace normals.

It will come down to the codom vs. dom status of the spider.

One would think that if NERD had time to produce spiderghosts, bubblebees, killerbees, and albino spiders and so on...that spider X spider has been done many times. No word or stance on this yet.......

Either way spiders are a great morph....but don't forget what helped to make killer and bubbles.

I like what you said about pastel females virtually replacing a normal female.....I agree. Everything will eventually go through the female pastel.......it simply turns the lights on other morphs....plus enhances blushing features.

Thanks for your thoughts,

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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Pastels are Het for Super Pastel... It's that simple!!

A Genetic Stripe is $25,000.00ea and Hets are over $10,000.00 per pair! There aren't many Het. Stripe owners that are upset with their animals because they are expensive normals! It's all about what they produce...

If you think Pastels are overpriced then just take a moment and think of them as 100% Het. for Super Pastels! Super Pastels sell well at around $15,000.00ea. Pastels priced at $3,500.00 per pair is a good price for a project that can yield $15,000.00 results!

I love Pastels and I am SICK for Supers... There is no doubt that exceptional quality Pastels are worth every penny of what you pay for them.

What is so bad about having something more attractive than a normal to look at while you're waiting to hatch that Homozygous? Defintely is a little more appealing than looking at the Hets. from recessive projects...

Just my thoughts...

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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

Great point. They are still the best investment out there for us po' folk.
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JMHO, FWIW, YMMV.

Your right there are some grungy pastels.......but I have seen some absolutely stunning pastels.....and ofcourse the super speaks for itself.

Be picky.....find the pastel that you would be willing to spend that much on.....if it doesn't exist.....spend your resources on a morph that fires you up.

I do think that the largest reason pastels have retained their value is potential (what it can breed with) as you indicated above. Female pastels are a powerful resource and a gateway to many new designer morphs. The fact that it is co-dom with the super.....ads even more value.

It's a great morph......and frankly an excellent way for someone to start breeding at a reasonable cost. You will be able to pick up a very affordable male this year......pull that together with 3-5 nice females and you can have a blast getting a breeding project going.

Whatever other morphs you later may want to bring in to the mix you can cross with the pastels.

But........at the end of the day you are the consumer....and have total free will to make the decision you think are wise with your financial resources. The nice thing about balls is there is a flavor for everyone....you have many choices!

Take it easy,
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Simple as this, SUPER PASTEL, plus all the crosses.

If you can't afford one, get a normal, if you want the prices to drop, produce 50-60 and sell them cheaper.....
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www.NEWReptiles.com

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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

3 clutches today.

I'm having a blast.
Give me a call tonight.
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www.NEWReptiles.com

YOU SUCK..............LOL

WHOOOO YAAA..........

Does it get any better then ball breeding....or talking about ball breeding.........NOPE

way to go,
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

i can afford one that's why i have one on the way. infact i feel like i should have just went with the pastel first instead of the albino hets but live & learn

have you reproduced any clutches with that girl on your site in the bottom right pic? if so where there any genetics in the mix..she'd make a pretty pastel

"i can afford one that's why i have one on the way. infact i feel like i should have just went with the pastel first instead of the albino hets but live & learn"

I was talking about the fella who started this thread......

"have you reproduced any clutches with that girl on your site in the bottom right pic? if so where there any genetics in the mix..she'd make a pretty pastel"

If you were refering to the girl on "our animals" page, she just dropped 5 eggs about 10 minutes ago from an awsome pastel male. I too thought she might kick some beautiful pastels. I will put some pics of her babies up in about 55 days.
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www.NEWReptiles.com

ohh my bad i thought that was addressed to me......yup that's the girl congrats on the clutch i can't wait to see pics she's a swell looker ..lol

Got ta love it!
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Don't count your eggs before they hatch!

But best of luck to ya with those.
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- Joel Smith

Email Me!

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Edited on June 14, 2004 at 22:53:38 by phwyvern.

I did.....

And like I said, there were 5......

Again, I will post pics of all 5 babies when they hatch.....
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www.NEWReptiles.com

I dont know man I think its starting to come more frequently due to hatching time coming.
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0.1 Leos
1.1 Corn snakes (1 Lav & 1 Ghost)
0.1 Banan California King
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
1.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
"whats with you and all those dang reptiles?"

They are worth what people are willing to pay for them. The pastels that keep their high yellow coloration with lots of blushing as adults are sweet lookin snakes IMO. Go to the classifieds & click on ASF's ads, and if you can't appreciate their pastels, then you just don't like them I guess.

BTW: I think a good pastel blows away a spider anyday, but I'd rather have a spider so I could make a little more $$ right now.

My opinions,
Chad

They are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

I really like pastels, I really like albinos (preferably high contrasts) also. I don't like pieds that much. I know some people absolutely love them, but I don't. Pieds are OK, but for the same money, I'd rather have a high contrast albino, carmel albino, very nice orange-ghost, etc. And with what they are worth today, I'd much rather have 3 or 4 albinos than just one pied!

In my opinion, pieds are way over priced, and albinos and pastels are not.

My purchasing dollar (and people with the same opinion as me) keeps the prices of albinos and pastels up (because I have bought them), and I reduce the price of pieds by not buying any. People with other opinions on these morphs, may do the opposite, and have the opposite effects on pricing. The market will work out the prices, based on supply (the total number produced and up for sale) and demand (people's opinion of what each morph is worth and what they are willing to pay.)

The reason you think they are over priced, is because you don't like them that much! (just like I think pieds are over priced for the same reason.)

Rodney

for he is nucking futs!!!!!!!!
You know you're gonna go to he!! for that..right?

PIEDS RULE!!!!

You may want to be exorcised......cause there's something wrong with you man......

I think a lot of people do consider piebald to be the ultimate stunning mutation.

However, you also have to look at the supply side. Albino was proven in 1992, five years before pied. Long term I would expect both of these mutations to stay a little higher than some less stunning ones (maybe $500 - $700 instead of $300 - $500). But it will take a long time yet as I don't think any ball python mutations have yet reached their stabilization price (not even pastel with people using one male to produce 10 - 20 clutches). I think the stabilization price will be determined by the price at which large numbers of people stop working hard at increasing production but might take decades to get there.

actually I don't like them i love me...i just felt a little differently about the pricing but either way it didn't stop me from grabbing one i can't wait for him to get here & wow I think that might be the first time I heard someone say that..lol well what about the low pied ones? like the 20% where it's alot of pattern instead?

I'm the same... I like an exceptional albino better than a pied... however, an albino pied will be fantastic!

LOL! You had to go there and come up with this lame excuse just because you can't afford one didn't you? Or are you the only child and you need some attention? Personally I don't think that any ball python should have to raised in a Trailer home anyways. May get heat exhaustion.
As far as the price of Pastel being over priced many have already made the argument for me. We have produced 50 Pastels and I sold all the males above and beyond $1000-$1200. Why because we were patient with raising them up to 400g and selling them for more as they got better looking and closer to breeding size. As far as female Pastels are concern I have kept back many of our 2003s and they range form 600-1200g. Again many have argued why this will be they future of ball pythons because we have only seen the beginning of the crosses with Pastels.

The Bumble Bee is one of the finest and most desirable morphs out there that many people want and will produce themselves. A male Spider is needed but so is the female Pastel. With a Bumble Bee male any and all normal female adults are worth more than $2500 the cost of Pastels females now. Spider to Spider or Spider Pastel. You do the math.

You must be the same one complaining about the price of adult females.

I won't even tell you what the Killer Bee will do for your normal female adults. I am afraid your brain may overload.

GO TO A BIG SHOW and see for yourself. You too Randy ?

The Platty Pastel is a fine looking animal and much better looking than the Platty by itself. Platty to Platty or Platty to Pastel. You do the math.

The Ghost Pastel is now more than ever trying to be reproduced because of its look. Ghost to Ghost or Pastel to Ghost and make hets. Then the wait 1-3 more year.

The Pastel Pied hasn't even come out yet. That will change the price of both the Pastel Female and Pieds. If you thought Pieds were the BOOM then just wait.

Super Pastel are the top of the line right now. Why the Super Pastel Pied. Super Pastel Genetic Stripe. Super Pastel Patternless. Super Pastel Mojave. Super Pastel Platty. Super Pastel Ghost. Super Pastel Albino.

I can go on but no need to if you don't get it by now!

Here is one of our "normal" adult Pastel females. What's is so normal about this?

Here is one of our ThinBanded Pastels.

Link