Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm sure everyone has noticed.
The ball python ads are LOADED with attempts to sell normal snakes at outrageous prices. While some of these snakes may have interesting patterns, it is highly unlikely these are genetic.In fact, you can probably look at ANY ball python and find cool little pattern anomalies to point out.
A normal ball python with extra nice color as a hachling will at best grow into a "prettier than average" adult.
So, as these folks are likely paying 7-10 dollars for these animals, are they really going to find buyers at 150-350 bucks?
All the best,
Perry

"History teaches us that men behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives"

Your not alone, I'm sick and tired of people hand picking slightly odd looking normals out of boxes of CH animals and throwing them on the classifieds with 4 adjectives in the name.

A NORMAL IS A NORMAL IS A NORMAL, think ya got a morph? then prove it.

Dont get me wrong, I have seen a few cool looking balls that may be worth a few hundred to the right buyer, but alot are the same people that have been offering all thier NORMALS as superblushingblackbackedpartialstripedreducedpatternedorangetigerringeredpastelishedwannabespidered CRAP.

The funny thing is, I won't even open ads from certian sellers anymore, and I also don't open ads with any of the names I mentioned above.

Another exception are the reduced patterns, Camlon, now that is friggin reduced, unlike others I have seen.
-----
www.NEWReptiles.com

i have no problem with people hand picking babies and giving them elaborate descriptions as long as the price in not ridiculous, i dont mind paying a bit more than a prettier than average animal, but it is the claims, that these things are genetic, or are 'the next best thing' that bug me.

its when you see a pretty normal go for 150 i have a problem, and it also cons all the newbies out there, i dont know where i saw it but a newbie had payed 1000 for what they believed was a ghost, and really it was just a normal and not a nice one either
-----
Guy
db Reptiles.

Of course some breeders sell captive bred normals for $100. That's probably about what it costs to produce one with a decent return. The only reason the rest of us have to sell them for $25 is all the imports. So maybe SOME of the ch slightly odd balls MIGHT be worth $150 if they have them eating good etc. I guess if you are going to go to all the expense of raising up a ball python perhaps a little extra initial investment in a nice one is justified, I guess that’s what the buyers of the $100 captive hatched from well known breeders are thinking.

Randy,

You bring up a good point about the cost of producing a ball python. But I bet most of those you see on Kingsnake or at least a large majority are imports. Importers pay less than $10 each for these animals and then resell them for crazy prices. This is one of the reasons I don't produce normals. Hell, I have a hard time selling 100% het albinos for $250 yet some importers sell "busy ball", "wild ball", "turmiol ball", etc. for prices close to that and more.
-----
Jay A. Martin

Of course the importers are in a position to find the slightly above normal CH (I think I found a couple that made it to a pet store but they may or may not have been worth the $20-30 I had to pay for them).

I was just looking at it from the purchaser side. Some people don't worry too much about what someone else is making of them and just think what you want to raise up. It might be a good decision for a perspective pet owner to pay $100 for a known healthy and feeding captive bred from a well known breeder, a $250 het albino male from you, or a $150 (hopefully not too much more expensive) slightly unusual ch vs. a $50 completely normal of unknown health and origin. If you are buying feeders at a pet store you could easily spend the difference in the snake's purchase prices in a year or two, might as well have one that tickles your fancy and has some breeding potential in case they are headed that way. I hope the cherry pickers are at least bothering to get the ch eating to justify their profit even a little bit (one less risk for the purchaser).

And there's nothing wrong with paying a little extra for an above average looking NORMAL. Once you prove it, you can call it what you want.

>I was just looking at it from the purchaser side. Some people don't worry too much about what someone else is making of them

And this is fine. But sell it for what it is. Not a Chevy Chevette being sold as a Maserati.

>and just think what you want to raise up. It might be a good decision for a perspective pet owner to pay $100 for a known healthy and feeding captive bred from a well known breeder, a $250 het albino male from you, or a $150 (hopefully not too much more expensive) slightly unusual

Yes. Buy with trust and get healthy animals - regardless of where you get them from.

Oh well, this is a common thread that constantly crops up. You and I have been around long enough to see where it's going.
-----
Jay A. Martin

Another Reason I won't buy from to many well known breeders. If you are going to boost the price because of your rep then I'll go else where! Luckly I know enough people where this doesn't seem to be the problem. I'm not paying the extra premium when I can go else where get a much nicer or just as nice animal for a less price. The herp market went from a hobby to a business. No one would be paying these outragious prices if there wasn't a return. Sure breaking even would be fine, heck paying for food would be even better. 20K for a ball python is rediculas! It's no secret they are laughed at by people keeping truly rare reptiles which are worth the big bucks.

John

I agree $100 isn't bad if you just want 1 pet; hell they can live for almost 50yrs. It's the $250-$2000 dollar normals that they paid $3 for that gets me.

Greedy people suck.

Chad

I have to say I don't mind open Ben seigals adds. Sure he pays the $7-10 price but then again he's got some beauties! His reduced pair I've seen in person and the male looks just as good if Not better then the ones that ralph davis proved out. Just my thoughts,

John

Sounds like a new morph name to me.........LOL...........
-----
Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

>>Sounds like a new morph name to me.........LOL...........
>>-----
>>Jim Perron
>>Python Passion Reptiles
>>pythonpassion@hotmail.com
>>www.pythonpassionreptiles.com
-----
"Remember the days of the old schoolyard?" - Cat Stevens

So.. who wants to host a list of 'safe' vendors, since we can't get it done here?
-----
Astronomy Picture of the Day

make the market more secure for the bigger and/or more reputable breeders. These ads may lure in some suckers but once they get burned who will they buy form next? That's right, someone who has been around a while with a good reputation. I see it as an opportunity for people to take advantage of this market and establish themselves as a good reputable breeder.

Rudd

They are not going to get the $$ from me, and that is all they are "NORMALS". I just go to herp shows to pick up any normals I want, cuz they usually will not BS you when your standing in front of them, plus you can see what the animals really look like. It pisses me off seeing it, but it's also kinda funny that a person would post some of those animals as, "special" Balls, when they are w/o a doubt "NORMALS".

They are retards, take it easy on them.

Chad

I agree with the first part of you post.

However, I disagree wholeheartedly with the "take it easy on them" comment.
They are obviously taking advantage of newbies. All of us know
that they are just normals with exaggerated names, but someone
must be buying them or else they would probably have stopped
trying.

Glad this forum is here so that hopefully some of these people
(and practices) will be discouraged.

I hear ya. I was being sarcastic when I said, "take it easy on them".

Chad

All Wild caught and imported 5.00-7.00 snakes

Oh look at this normal it has dots on it and has yellow

Now it is a yellow pokadot 150.00

Who are they kidding.

We know what morphs are! ALL others are just NORMALS!

Did you guys here about the guy a few years ago that paid extra because the balls had some white areas on it? He called them pieds, bet he regrets it. I also heard about a guy that bought a baby that looked a little different and he called them mojave, another sucker. Or the one that really gets me is the reduced pattern ball that someone called a spider, I am sure that is going nowhere. Obviously I am just joking here, but all the morphs started as something that looked a little different. Let people put up normals for big money, if they ask too much they will get stuck with it. Supply and demand.

The first spider ball belonged to a breeder of geckos in the San Diego area. He sold it to NERD for around $1200 as I recall... I bet he really is kicking himself right now.

Although I do agree that a majority of the adds are BS. But it is true that all "morphs" originated from somewhere and didn't happen overnight with any of them since they all needed to be bred in order to be proven and hence considered a morph. Someone spent the time and effort to beleive in an animals genetics to devote the time and money to the project. Most of the successful breeders have got there from taking a chance and ro;;ing the dice. Sometimes it works out and sometimes not. Don't forget about "visible hets". We have only touched the tip of the iceburg on these! After all, didn't a couple of those nomal "Mohaveish looking" phantoms produce a Lucy??!!!! I check all the adds daily hoping to pick up projects to work out and have found a few projects to beleive in, enough to dedicate the years to prove them out!

I thought ralph breed those mojave looking (phantoms?) to a daddy platty and produced leucys, or was it mojave lookings to lesser plattys?
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (???)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

Like this odd female I picked up last year that will be ready in the fall.

Very nice!
Looks like some mojave going on there.

Thanks, I got her from a friend of mine who raised her from a baby.He swears she looked like a Mohave when she was a baby. I did a serious trade with him to obtain her. She is actually dark in that pic and is more of a light greenish color now. She has a clear belly too. I will prove or disprove her this fall. Who knows??? Bill

s
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (???)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

NP

Speaking of taking a chance Bill.
How is that dark female BP you picked up from me last Summer doing? Is she dark still?
Just curious to find out what she looks like now.

Steve

Hey Steve, actually I so;d her! I was buying too many females and have some IMG types and Melanistics that will be ready in the fall.

s
-----
0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (???)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

Please do not make fun of my handicaps, god created us all special.

The first pied had a very small amount of white on it and Pete Kahl did the work on that one!

I have seen some really outrageous adds for normals at inflated prices. It really ticks me off to see $5 imports being advertised for $1000 by people. I really dislike the "I'm not saying it's a new morph...but it might be".
That being said, I can see paying extra for really nice normals. I paid $100 for this '03 normal with jungle traits. To me he seemed like he was worth the extra money.

He'd be great to work into an albino line for high contrast. I think you made a good choice... he's very pretty.