Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am curious if anyone not breeding BDs in quantity has calculated the cost of raising a clutch up to 6 weeks of age?
The reason I ask is so many people want to breed BDs for some extra money. People ask me this question and I dont have an answer for them. I know it sounds good but what is the return on investment like for someone with one or two females. Just looking for answers.

Cost of the incubator
housing the babies
lights- fixtures, bulbs and electric
food
time spent caring for them
...am I forgetting anything?

and lastly, what is the average selling price of your babies.
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Bennett

Home Of The Florida Orange
www.beardiedragon.com

Hey Bennett, I would also figure in that a female can drop eggs every 30 days for several months so they may have many more babies than originally anticipated, which = more cages, more lights, more fixtures, more food, etc. I would also stress that it takes several clutches to make back the $$ of the initial investment and it's going to be a long time before they start to see any profit off of 1 or 2 females, if ever, if they do things the correct way (which they should). I figured it out once for someone and it came out like a couple hundred in the hole even if everything went perfect. Another limiting factor is off of that few lizards and because of size requirements of food items they won't be able to get the good discounts on crickets and such, most they would probably be able to buy at one time is 1000 so food is going to cost them more per baby than someone like you who 1. breeds their food or 2. buys in mass quantity at a lower price per bug. Good luck running the #'s, might want to post your results on here when your done so everyone who is thinking it's a good idea and they're going to get rich of their baby girl can see just what it costs.

Sean
Heart Mountain Herps

I think a HIGHLY successful small time breeder is one who is able to break even or get close. By the time you figure all the thousands and thousands of crickets they eat(not to mention everything else before breeding, lights cages etc., etc. You are not going to make extra money in most cases. What is usually the case is you make this investment in small increments over time and don't realize the entire cost. As you sell the babies you are just recouping some of that spent money. One other thing to consider, which I think some people are finding out this year, is that you have to actually sell the babies once they are born. The market is so flooded you have to have something pretty special to move them quickly enough. Think of the added expense of 400 gram yearlings that didn't sell.

Mike
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.

Alot of people who just purchased one, and get another, and want to breed, before they even have any experience.

I really do understand their enthusiasum, and joy in keeping this guys, but They should enjoy one and become knowledgable about him before purshasing another and breeding.

EVERYONE has the right to breed if they want, but I feel there are so many out there, and so many more this season , that maybe people, especially people NEW to breeding should hold off a bit!

Hate to see it ever getting like the poor green iggies :0(

I have had my Auggie for 6 years, and never got another one. I'm into breeding other lizards, but on a smaller scale.

I personally knew with all the other animals I have I could NOT deal with the amount of babies the Beardies have, and then a couple more clutches after the first (all in one season)

** Overwhelming for most, especially someone new to them.

Auggie my ONE male, lives a good life, and is very CONTENT just living in the same room as his neighbors !

Suncharmers

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Eve

If anyone decides to breed definitely don't do it if your motive is making money. This is the wrong business if making extra easy money came to your mind as you decide to breed your dragons LOL. Best thing to do if you have exceptionally healthy dragons worth breeding first off is to buy towards that goal over a period of time, so the initial expense of setting up the baby rack, the incubator, the bins, and bulbs is not so hard to swallow. It is expensive, and a lot of thought has to be done first. All those what ifs have to be answered. What if they don't sell, what if they need a vet, what if you have to house them and feed them for a lot longer then expected. You need a cushion. Be prepared and have that money put aside first and before these things pop up. Have people local who will take groups of them and care for them God forbid something happens and they need to sell fast. Things pop up and it can't be done week to week pay check to pay check. They eat tons of food. Weekly orders of crickets over 100 bucks for one females babies. Most likely you will have multiple clutches. 20 is a fraction of what can be laid. Be prepared for your electricity bill to double, If you still live at home your parents will not be happy with 18 more lights burning for 14 hours a day. Parents have to be interested too and in on the planning too!!! The bulbs, UVB, the extra heat in the house and the air conditioner running extra to be comfortable. It all has to be done correct and no corners cut. Shipping them to where they have to go is tough, and the proper boxes for shipping are expensive. That initial cost for boxes and cups can be 150 . Not something that can be done fast or as you go, you need plans. The time put in to keep them healthy, and fed is more then you think, If you have trips planned for the summer forget it or deal with the consequences of not feeding them on time, nips. I feed my babies 5 times a day and mist 3 to keep them full, content, and in one piece. A lot of time will go to their care, and keeping them clean. Local customers will want to come over and see your setup, see the parents, and how the babies are kept and cared for. Very time consuming, but if you have the love, time, and extra money to start and do it right the rewards are great. Just put extra thought, and be prepared. And if you live at home your parents have to be in on it and know the responsibility, once they breed it is done, and the hard work lies ahead. If your parents think uvb lights, vets, suppliments, are a waste of money please wait till your on your own and ready to breed cause they won't stand for their electricity to double thats for sure.
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Webshots photos
www.Mystical-Dragons.com

I didn't exactly calculate - but I know for sure that I lost *big time* when I was breeding 18 babies 1½ year ago. I stopped counting when I realized that I was way over the sum that I had calculated selling them for..! I sold each baby for 500 Swedish krona (that is about 70 US $)

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I cant tell you exactly how much it would cost. but i can tell you that i currently sell my babies for $30 each. when i can get my pair to breed somemore the price will go down to $25.

www.jddkreptiles.com

In writing my original business plan I ran a number of scenarios to figure out where profitability is in the dragon market. With proper planning you can become profitable with 10 breeders without cutting corners.

The secret is in re-useable resources. For example you need to space out your clutches so that tanks and lights can be re-used thereby lowering their cost per baby. This also works specifically with marketing. A KS account spread over a single clutch will be $1.00 per baby, over 10 clutches drops it down to $.10 per baby.

Pricing needs to be a balance between covering your costs (and possible making a profit) and amount of time you need to hold them. Too cheap and your spinning your wheels and never going anywhere (which doesn't allow you to buy new breeders or better equipment). Too expensive and your holding them forever raising the cost to you for each baby.

The problem arises in those that think they can buy adult dragons and have play money in 3 months. It takes a couple of seasons to learn breeding habits (to space clutches) and market conditions (to time the market and prices).
Scales - Premium Exotic Reptiles

I bought an adult male and a sub adult female for 475 total cost. Therefor, I didn't have the expense of raising them from babies. (that was a big mistake BTW as most of you know the female is the one I believed infected my dragons with adenovirus) ....... SO.... I had them for about 5 months before they bred and she laid 4 clutches totaling 99 eggs. Out of all of those 1 died in my care and I gave one to my daughter so I sold 97 babies. Well, sold SOME of them. I found that there were really more people willing to trade for other reptiles than there were people who wanted to buy. Which is fine if you are trying to build a collection. I had to buy 3 incubators.... $150... cages ran me about 40 bucks.... I spent I think a total of around 750 on crix and can't recall how much on suppliments or greens but I think it was like three bottles at least of repcal and one bottle of herptivite.... another 50 bucks at least on supplimenst alone.... My electric bill I figured with just the adult cage running was around 30 bucks a month and jumped another 20-30 when the babies cages were fired up.
I sold a 10 lot of the first clutch for 200 to a pet store and put an add in the paper and sold I think it was 4 or 5 for 75 each. I kept one of the nicest females and traded the three that were left for a hypo boa. Next clutch i sold some with full cage setups in the paper for 150 and made about 60 or 75 on each one of those I belive is what I had figured up. Also usd some free classifieds and sold a few on there for 75 dollars each and wholesaled the rest for 275 plus shipping. Next clutch I started selling to the local pet stores as the paper ads weren't responding anymore and was getting 3 for 100. I also traded 5 to the pet store for a 75 gallon aquarium that had one end broke out and replaced that for 15 bucks. I also sold the rest of this clutch to the wholesaler for 300. Last clutch mostly went to the wholesaler for 375. I used the snake as trade material later and got a nice male plus another male for the snake and 150 out of my pocket sold the male for 100 and basically got the nicer male for 50 later I sold him for 350 after he had fathered a cluthc for me. I also used the money I was making off of the babies to purchase a few more subadults which I later sold and made money on though It was only about 200 I cleared on the sell of the adults. Later, I sold the original female for 275 and the male for 200 so I made my money back on them other than the food I put into them and the lighting I paid for.
I also got a really nice female sandfire/red from Chris that bacame gravid through exploits and would've definately made money on those babies if the adeno thing hadn't come into play then.
What I did was get them old enough and big enough to sell them and the ones that didn't sell quickly I wholesaled within 2-3 weeks of putting them on the market. Since they were a Snow/Hypo cross they sold fairly well in my area because there just aren't very many people with dragons available other than normals. They didn't sell very well online which is why I had to look at a wholesaler.
Is It a good idea to buy adults? If you take the necassary precautions and don't breed them untill you're sure they are not sick (assuming you've done you're homework and know what to look for) it could turn out all right. I at the very least made back my money and ended up with some nice subadults that would have made me extra money had it not turned out my colony was infected with the adeno.
I guess it just depends on how you handle what you're doing and if you can market them successfully and diversify if things aren't going as you expected. As far as making money in you're first season of breeding I wouldn't count on it ( unless you're a hustler). I'd say that is more of you're corner block to begin building your collection and buisness upon. Just make sure that your animals are healthy and you have studied hatchling care well enough to not make serious mistakes.

Robert Wood
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I know you like to think that your $h1T don't stink but bend a lil closer see your roses still smell like poo poopoo
( OutKast )