Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey, I accidently grabbed some 'Giant' mealworms instead of the usual 'medium' at the store today, and decided i'd give them a try and see how my leos liked them. they are between 3-6 times the size of the mealworms they were eating before, but they seem to LOVE them!!! They are much more visible to them, they can hunt them easier and they don't have any trouble swallowing them down. Even though my leos are still subadult, 30-40 grams, would it be a problem using these giant mealworms and feeding them like 6-8 of them a day? they seem to enjoy them and it would make my life MUCH easier. Thanks!
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

Well, the giants are fed a hormone that keeps them from morphing into their alien-like stage, so they just keep growing. I dunno how that hormone affects you leo, but that's why they are so big.
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-Jeff
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hmm.. i hope this isn't a problem.. i'll do some more research before i feed them any more of them. thanks.
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

here's what someone said on an earlier post, any thoughts...

"First of all, don't worry about hormones being fed to your animals. This is a wives tale!

Hormones are complex protein molecules. They get torn apart by the stomach acids, just like any other protein. In order for your animal to have a problem with them, you would have to inject them directly into the blood stream, to avoid the stomach acids from ripping them apart. Also, insect hormones should not effect you gecko. These very complex molecules are designed to work in insects, not geckos. To influence your geckos health, in any way, you would need Leopard Gecko hormones, not mealworm hormones.

This has been studied quit a bit with cattle. Cattle are frequently given hormones to make them grow faster, larger, produce more milk, etc. Cattle hormones don't even effect people, even though we are both mammals. (Though there are many alarmists and hypochondriacs that will say different). I understand that experiments have even been tried injecting these hormones directly into people, and no results could be seen/measured. Ingesting hormones is no big deal at all.

When was they last time you worried about eating a piece of meat, because of the molecule structure of that particular protein?--Never, would be my guess. (I can't eat fish, the protein in fish will make me grow scales! LOL ) Alarmists can't say things like this, and make people take them seriously, but if they mention hormones, people who don't know any better will listen and believe.)

These alarmists really make me laugh.--what a bunch of fools. They will make the same nonsensical arguments about eating genetically engineered foods. (Though they conveniently leave out the fact that virtually everything we eat is genetically engineered by crossing different species or strains. Farmers have been doing this for many generations. This crossing is totally random, and has never been a problem, but when scientists carefully change just one part of a gene, it is now terribly dangerous? Since when is completely randomly mixing anything totally safe, and changing just one part, on purpose, and controlled, dangerous?)

As for the worms you are getting, I don't know exactly what you have without seeing them. Unfortunatly, commom names don't mean much. (King worms are Zophobas, and regular mealworms are Tenebrio molitor.) I raise king worms and regular mealworms by the thousands. I keep them at room temps. and they always pupate fine--turning into beetles. I suspect you must have the regular mealworms treated with hormones as King worms don't do well when cooled down.

Kingworms can basically just be thought of as "tropical" mealworms. They are larger, like warmer temps. (refrigerating them kills them), and need a lot more water. In fact, regular mealworms will do fine with just good humidity, but king worms need a water source to feed on. "
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

The only problem with this "theory" that the hormones used cannot affect you or your pet.. is that it has been proven wrong in scientific study... If I could find the paper I would scan it in for everyone. These growth hormones are linked to the presence of free radicals in the body which, as we all know, free radicals cause cancerous growths. The FDA is VERY particular now about what hormones are used on cattle and all other food products. The Insect growth hormone they use is designed specifically for insects yes but there has NOT been enough study in the relationship between reptiles and their insect prey to sufficiently prove theres no harm in using it. Personally, I wouldn't. Before that hormone laden piece of food reaches the stomach it comes in contact with all sorts of mucous membranes that absorb chemicals through them and directly into the blood stream.. and that includes inside the mouth. Its why they give people and even pets nitroglycerine pills under the tongue or glucose when they go into diabetic shock.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

I don't know about all the hormone issue, but I always though superworms were their own species, and didn't know there were giant superworms. I guess I have the giants also, they are almost the length of my pinkie finger. My leo loves them and I agree with what you said about ease of visibility and ease to swallow. They are also more nutritious than mealworms from everything I've read.
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-Bill

1.0.0 Albino California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Colombian Red Tail Boa
0.1.0 Leucistic Patternless Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Red Flame Crested Gecko
0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu

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Superworms are their own species... Giant mealworms are Tenebrio Molitor larvae that are fed a growth hormone to make them continue to grow and not pupate. Superworms are Zoophobas... its a confusing issue for a lot of people which are which.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

Are we talking about what Grubco calls mighty mealies or superworms on their website (http://www.grubco.com, with photos of both)? My understanding is that the superworms are a different species and that the mighty are the hormone-loaded ones... but I could be wrong.

I wouldn't want to feed too many hormone-loaded worms to my gecko because, although most will be destroyed by acid in the gastro-intestinal tract, some will be absorbed (think of oral contraceptives) and no one knows if/how they will act. They might not act as hormones in a lizard but no one knows for sure that they don't do anything else... sea anemones make molecules to paralyze fishes but the same molecules are immunosuppressants in mammals and don't induce paralysis.

Are super worms really similar in size and appearance and everything? If so, i'll just use those instead.
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

what was great about those giant mealworms was that i just need to feed my leos like 4 or 5 a day and they're completely full
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

Same thing with Superworms.. they get pretty much as big. I breed supers too... as well as normal mealies... 5 or 6 of the supers and my adults even were full for a bit...
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

awesome, sounds great
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund

I'll admit at first I was like "hormones? that cant be healthy" but I've been using them for about 2 months now and they're perfectly fine to feed. After reading the stuff fadetolemons posted, I'm even more sure that they're fine, so dont worry about the hormone stuff. Good luck
Mac

good to know, thanks
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1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Miniature long-haired dachsund