Reptile & Amphibian Forums

a few weeks ago I purchased a beautiful WC ambilobe chameleon, He was alittle skinny at only 160 grams, He ate like a champ and drank like crazy. When I bought him I was told of a few subqtainus nematodes(sp?) or worms under his skin. the seller told me they were dead and would not hurt him.

Early this week he stopped eating and I figured it it was just him being moody, knowing chameleons should be able to survive several weeks without food. well he looked fine and drank water until thursday, thursday I went outside and he was skin and bones, his eyes had sunk in overnight and he slept all day! I tried to feed him some repti aide but he threw it back up along with a bunch of long worms some over an inch long. I saved the worms and made a vet visit the next day for him. After he expelled the worms he started drinking and I hoped he was going to get better. the next morning he still drank but looked awful, I talked to the vet and decided the best thing to do was to put him to sleep even though he was my absolute favorite chameleon I did not want him to suffer over the weekend.

The vet told me after he was put to sleep, he cut out one of the worms under his skin and it was very much alive. He informed me that the only way to get rid of the worms is to cut them out. Even when the ones are cut out there are usually baby ones still in the skin not visible yet, and eventually they will grow up and breed, sooner or later they will cause liver failure. I tried to do some research on these worms when I first got him but found very little information so I'm hoping my experience will help someone in the future.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

when I walked outside thursday and saw my chameleon in this horrible state I weighed him, he had dropped down to 130 grams from 160 the previous week. The worms had taken a firm hold on him by then I'm guessing and sucked the life out of him over night.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

Jovana, I am so sorry ot hear of your trouble and loss - that really is sad. I suppose it is a reminder of how well chams can hide health problems and how rapidly they can decline.

Shame on the breeder for giving you such poor information and not encouraging a followup. Maybe it was something you should have done, but you trusted the breeder. As you said it was a lesson learned.

FYI there is a book called "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Klingenberg that seems to be the one most recommended. It is a small but thorough book and very inexpensive. I think every herp keepers library should include it.

lele
book

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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

You are right, I am so upset with myself for not taking him for a checkup when I first got him, but him being my first wild caught, I wanted to give him alittle time to get settled into his new home before stressing him.

I will also see if I can find this book, thank you.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

Jovana,

just don't beat yourself up over it, things do happen often beyond our control. We know that you are are an exceptional cham Mom and would never intentionally jeapordize your pets health.

lele
p.s. I linked the book (amazon) in the last email
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Yes I saw the link, thank you. I'm going to try to find it at the book stores around here first, if not I'm going to order it I think its going to be a must have book.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

Now I don't know a great deal about reptile parasites. But I did study some last semester in ecology. (We have an awesome ecology/anatomy/physiology teacher at my school by the way. Check it out www.drwhitey.com).If they were subcutaneous nematodes, how would they make their way into the digestive tract? Hence the vomiting up of them? They would have to eat straight through the intestines or stomach.

I've never heard of actually having to physically remove parasites like that..other than tapeworms and some round worms. Perhaps he had both? Get a stool sample if you can find one that's not too old?

Also...How do chameleons survive parasites like these in the wild? Do the contract them through importation or do they bring them in from their respective habitats?
Anyways...Sorry for all the questions...I'm also trying to understand parasites and such..I plan on getting a pair of wc merumontana soon...
--Cory

this is what i think happined along with the answer from above

in the wild they will almost always have parasites in them

they are killed by the parasite when they become stressed and the parasite then multiply very rapidly becuase the cham has a weakend immune system.

Jov's cham desided he didn't like the food he was being given or somthing happined in his cage that he didn't like or was afraid of and he got stressed leading to the nematodes over populating him and leading to his death.

and yes the easiest most effective why to get rid of the adult ones is by making a small slit and pulling them out which usually doesn't messup the scales if the vet is reasonable good for the babies ithink they treat them with meds.

Cory,

We have learned that there are many different types of nematodes, some exist just under the skin, other invade many of the internal organs, some even invade the white parts of the eye. These parasites are usually transmitted through mosquito bites. The can be transfered from the original host to other living animals (warm & cold blooded) and even humans.

The subcutaneous nematodes can be removed through an incision in the skin and then the area is flushed with either iodine or betadine and antibiotic ointment after that. While this usually takes care of the visible parasite, there are many more in the blood stream. Some nematodes take from 6 months to a year to mature, and by then there is little hope of curing the animal, especially if it has the type of internal parasites that affect major organs.

Buying imported animals is always a gamble. They all come with some sort of a parasite load. A vet exam and a fecal needs to be done ASAP when purchasing a WC animal. You need to know what your dealing with before giving meds. Also you need to quarantine the animal until it has a clean fecal.

Imported animals are not easy to acclimate. Most obvious is the fact that they do have some sort of parasites and when they are shipped or transported this stresses them. Now the parasite has a better chance of taking over. So how you handle the animals, where you house it, what extra measures you take in feeding and watering all make a big difference.

We have dealt with imported chams and another consideration is whether they will adapt to living in captivity. Some just don't make it. It's tough to watch a healthy animal just slowly waste away to nothing in a 6 month period and finally just give up.

We are truly sorry for Jovanas loss. From her posts we can tell she cares for her animals.

Yosemite
Reptayls Ltd

I was foolish to believe that the seller had the animals best interest at heart and he was clean. Luckly I was not so foolish as to put his cage next to the rest of my cages, he was on the other side of the yard. I am taking fecals to the vet tuesday of all my chameleons just to be safe that they did not catch anything from him.

Luckly Ivan told me the nematodes cannot be transmitted from one chameleon to another, I only have to worry about possible round worms and whatever else he had infecting my others.

This is just a reminder to everyone to please be careful when buying any chameleon! you dont want to be in my shoes it is not fun.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

Hi all:

I had the unfortunate experience to deal with Jovana's chameleon today. It was not the best situation as we were torn between her love for her animal and the chamelen's well being. For all of you to know this is what was found on physical exam before euthanasia. The chameleon was only 125 grams even though it was a full grown adult male. Both eyes were severely sunken. Completely emaciated body with very prominent spine, hips and ribs. Depleted parietal fat reservoirs (fat pads). Severely dehydrated as noted by skin pinch test and the sunken eyes. At least 7 subcutaneous filarial worms in different parts of body. Very weak grip and difficulty moving.
Jovana brought a sample of the vomit with the worms and they included Ascarids and Strongyles. These are definitely not the same worms found on the skin as those are Filarids.

Upon discussion of husbandry, there was no way to find a cause for the quick decline of the animal's health that could have been done by Jovana. This leaves me to believe the problem was pre-existing. It was in the chameleon's best interest to be euthanized as he would have invariably suffered a lot more in the days to come. Jovana was the bigger person and allowed her chameleon to go, which is the biggest selfless act any chameleon owner can do.
After the chameleon was euthanized, a small incision was made on top of one of the worms to confirm their "deceased" state and the one removed was very much alive and fat.

I would like to add that I discussed with Jovana that kidney failure is not an uncommon sequel to severe infections of Filarial worms. I have heard of liver failure as well although I have not seen a case. Filarial worms can't be treated with any known medication. Ivermectin shows promise in some reptiles but not in chameleons as they are highly sensitive to the drug. The only way to eliminate these worms from the chameleon's body is via surgical removal. This procedure might need to be done several time during the chameleon's life as some of the immature worms will develop into adults and show the typical "zig zag" line.

Ivan

It wasn't clear if this was a fresh wild caught or an animal that was established at one time and went downhill because of neglect. It doesn't seem that this animal could have got so bad in the time he was with his new owner.
Dennis

Jovana might be able to shed more light on this but the info I have is that he was a WC animal and was with the previous owner for 1 year. Jovana has had him for 3 weeks. I agree that 3 weeks is a short time for the animal to get so bad when Jovanas husbandry parameters and care are within normal expectations. The fact that Jovana said the animal was underweight when she received him, makes me thing this was a pre-existing condition that progressively got worse. One thing is for sure, it takes more than 3 weeks for intestinal parasites to be in such large numbers that the chameleon starts vomiting them.
I didn't like either the statement made by whoever the previous owner was that the subcutaneous worms were dead and represented no risk to the chameleon.

Ivan

The Chameleon was a long term captive, it had been in the states since last year. I am unaware of when it was brought in last year though.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
0.1 Ambilobe Panther

Who was the seller so that nobody else makes the same mistake? If it was a wild caught animal from last year it could only be a couple people, right?
Dennis