Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone...my first batch of kimberly eggs is nearing their expected hatch date. two of the eggs are slightly sweating, and the other four are slightly indented. One of these dented ones has a slit in in, which has been there for two days now.. At first, I was ready to cut it open, but held back, thinking that I'd only worsen matters, and that the little guy will emerge in the next day or so...Well, it's been over two days now, and he still has not emerged.. In your experiences, have you ever encountered a hatchling who'd slit, and remain in the egg for a couple of days?? I would think that the inside of the egg would tend to dry out from the opening, after some time... any thoughts?? Should I cut this one open? There aren't any slits on any of the other eggs... FR and anybody else, what was the range of days that kimberlies took to incubate?? I have heard from several people that they averaged about 120 days or so; mine are on 105 or something... Any help would be greatly appreciated... Take care everybody...bob

Hi Bob. First, there is no way to tell how many days it will take, again, they have a range of days. Once you have experience with successfully hatching your kimberlys, you will find that eggs laid at different times of the year will have a different range, even in your exact same incubator, incubated at the same exact to the 1/1000000000000000th of a degree. To me, to sit and wait for the day is of no use. just wait until they hatch and write down the data. After a while the data may or may not make sense.

For instance, it was absolutely normal for us to hatch Kimberlys in the 90 to 110 day range, that is until, we had some hatch at 65 days.

Its very rare for a monitor to slit the egg and come right out. They mostly stay in the egg for 24 hours to a week, depending on species. Lacies and Croc monitors seem to want to live in the eggs.

On the other hand, sweating is a really bad sign, as is, the head not sticking out(with kimberlys) When they first slit, the head normally pokes strait up. If not, I think a breathing problem has occurred.

About cutting open eggs, I do not think its of any use. I know, some people cut open eggs and the babies survive, But I ask you, how do that know that egg would not of hatched anyway. I think ones that die in the egg are going to die, no matter what you do.

Of the thousands of monitors eggs I have incubated, only once, do I think cutting it open would have helped.

About the head sticking out, with larger monitors, theres lots of extra room in the eggs(like with snakes). So the monitors can slit and retreat back into the egg(and live there, lacies and crocs) With Kimberlys, it seems the monitor is compressed into the egg, you will never figure out how the sucker came out of those tiny eggs. They look like there rolled up like a roll of toilet paper and unroll as they hatch. Which means, theres really nowhere for the head to retract to.

About days and monitors, why its so useless is, almost all monitor eggs diapase, that is, spend time not developing. Some diapase at the begining, others at the end of development, others both. In reality, it only takes from 30 to 60 days for a reptile of that size to develop. The rest is diapase.

Good Luck and be patient, patient, patient, patient. Actually buy yourself a nice baseball bat, and everytime you get near the eggs, wack yourself with it. Cheers FR

I was contemplating on cutting the egg, and I picked the egg up, and felt a "kick"...there's a live baby in there, so I put him back in the incubator...let's hope he's able to hatch out on his own now.... thanks for everyone's help/opinions...take care,

bob

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When my eggs sweated, they did not hatch. I ultimately cut them open and found full-term dead babies. I have had only three or four that have sweated so I would not use that as a definitive gauge as to what will happen with yours.

I cut several eggs open with my last clutch. The ones I cut out are still alive with one exception. That one exception died a few weeks after "hatching" and its death may or may not have had anything to do with being cut out of the egg. I suspect it was not related. I also had one egg pip on the bottom of the egg and never emerge. I did not even realize it had pipped until I went to cut it out and discovered a slit on the bottom of the egg.

I have had a few pull their heads back into the egg but I can usually see a snout near the opening. I cannot recall any that have sat in the egg for more than a day or so, but that does not mean they have not done so.

I am of the opinion that if some of them are hatching now (or at least pipping), then they will be sufficiently developed to survive if you cut them out. My decision process weighed being uncertain about what would happen (will they hatch or not hatch on their own) vs. "knowing" that when I cut them out they were very likely to either be dead already or would survive the extraction and be fine. I chose to take the latter option for most eggs, although I did not cut them all out.

I am not sure how a smaller monitor looks inside an egg, but a larger species monitor is not sitting inside a spacious apartment either! It looks cramped to me!

-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

Ummm, just to be different...

The first clutch of rudis I hatched, all sweated before pipping. All came out. I took the beads of water rolling off them as a sign they were about to hatch. ??? All stayed in 24 hours, except one who stayed in three days. There was LOTS of room for them to retract their heads. Which they did whenever I took the lid off, ZIP! back in the egg!
The first time that happened, I was alarmed it was going to drown or something, so I lifted the flap of egg to look, and somehow, it scrunched its head down even farther! It just sat there blinking at me. So I felt bad for scaring it, and let it be.
The second clutch did not sweat at all. They hatched one egg at a time, and stayed in 24 hours each. Are they in communication with each other? Do they draw straws on who will go next? Wierd.
D.

Monitors don’t grow follicles into ovum’s all at once (not energy efficient), the number of follicles a female will grow depends of her environment (weather-food) this is why females have many follicles that have different stage of maturation, mature ovum’s are stored awaiting the rest of the clutch, the time to grow them depends again of her environment, this is why eggs do not hatch all at once, theirs no way of knowing the time difference between the first mature ovum and the last before deposition or even those in between, it can be weeks or months. You should never cut open an egg because one has piped or last years eggs hatched in 120 days, data on incubation time is of little value and should not be used as a guide.

Rgds

Hi Jobi, Its not about when the the ovum matured or the follicules created. The time of development is based on when the gamate become fertilized. Which is done at one time, not spread out over long periods.

But you are right, all and all, they are only mildly consistant and often completely unpredictable.

If the egg looks healthy, then leave it be. If the egg is black shriveled up, stinks and has maggots and flys all over it, throw it away. FR

Embryo development is not entirely determined by time of fertilization, Yolk percentages range from 70-98% the older the ovum is prior fertilization the higher the percentage will be, this will affect the duration of incubation because these eggs will have a much higher yolk surplus 50-70%, this translate into internal pressure that not only suffocate the embryo but also constrict the various blood vessels leaving no other alternative but to diapause’s until water evaporation relives some pressure (impossible in high humidity).
New ovum’s on the other hand will develop faster and often hatch with only 20-30% yolk reserve. Ironically this reserve will only sustain the hatchelling for about 2 weeks, yet it can sustain a shelled embryo the entire duration of incubation. Kind of reminds me the deference between a beef jerky cage and a good one.
Rgds

I have some problems with that. I am not saying that is wrong, its just this. How come with odatriad eggs, they all hatch withing the same week or they die. If the ovum was created at different times, then they should also hatch at different times.

It may be possible with larger varanid eggs, but then they hatch within a short period except when they multi-clutch, then it all does to pot in a hurry.

I think, from what I have seen, results first then backtracking, that your theory does not apply, but then it could explain why some have lots of yolk when they hatch and others have none.

Also, you leave little room for diapase, which monitors are known to do as well as lots of other reptiles.

It would help if you could explain how all this happens.

Please remember, we work from the hatchlings backwards, that is, to explain events that already happened. Not from follicules forward and predict what may happen. Thanks FR

First I know nothing about odatriads, I don’t keep any of the Australian, however I presume there biology would be the same as other monitors.
over and over iv questioned as to what causes diapauses in varanids, and to be honest aim still very much clueless as theirs way to many possibilities to pinpoint exactly the causes, environment is the key but how those it works? Is it a simple question of food availability? Can a female leave an imprint in the eggs that tell them when to hatch? Are the eggs affected by exterior change in climate? All these theories have been advanced but never proved because know body has the tools to make such studies.
My theory can be studied by just about anyone interested to do so, its fundamentals are follicular maturation, yolk size and yolk density, old ovum’s have more proteins witch make density, theirs many ways that yolk density can affect embryo development, first more protein= less food intake ration to growth, this also means that the balance between embryo growth and yolk absorption is disproportioned, again leading to a forced diapause’s.
The egg can not expel yolk or waste its only defence is to expel water, this creates a continuous struggle lose water absorb water. This sets us back to husbandry of gravid females; do we need a lower protein diet? Or do we simply offer less food, I really don’t know yet.
I do know that this kind of study will involve many sacrificed healthy females at different stage in there cycling, it also means many eggs will be cut open and yolk measured, to make accurate findings. Right now aim not up to this, I prefer enjoying my animals live, but this doesn’t mean aim not intrigued about this, non invasive observation can bring some enlightening, I may be wrong but I can’t be totally wrong all the time, ill keep at it for sure.