Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got my first two cluctches today--so far so good.

Can anyone figure out and explain the concept behind design of the egg lay-box I am using? All the clues you need are in the photos.

Mark

www.DrSeward.com

Photo #2

ok hers my view, id say these compartments are to help monitor and distribute humidity in your substrate, the bigger one is where you would ad water when needed, the second compartment acts like a stabilizer and may also be use as a guarding position for the female (at least for Tegus) the little trap in the last chamber is where you can insert a hydro probe to monitor humidity it can also allow air in and lower humidity if needed.
I think you add water via a little pip on the upper left corner.
Is any of this correct?

Photo #3

Well from the pictures I have an idea, but what I have gathered so far doesn't really make total sense to me. Some of the concept and material used mainly.

But I could be wrong about what your trying to get to. It is also hard to tell from the picture what the lid looks like, where it is placed in the cage etc. To know that would help know how it is usable for the female.

Also the boards you have as dividers are they all the way to the floor with just holes cut out for her to pass through in certain spots you chose? or are they simply dividers only covering the top not to the floor? if thats the case what are they dividing?

With that thick of wood you used are you getting any sort of gradient at all? unless the heat source is to the side your not getting a gradient from them digging side ways. They'd have to dig down.

So whatever your concept is may work but only if it is within context of your setup.

Please share more information.

Mark, that is a very interesting design/concept for an egg laying chamber...seems to work very well for you. I might have to make some up for next year. Thanks for sharing. Rob

can you tell me (from the photo) how it works? It may be more complicated than it first appears.

Mark

Is it like a maze, where the animal goes through the three chambers and thinks it's many feet into a burrow?

That's my guess too. By having several horizontally placed dividers/chambers, the gila can feel secure and have ample digging areas. Although I couldn't quite tell from the picture, the box could be placed as a subterranean retreat where it lies under the cage as a drawer with an access hole that leads from the above ground "cage" to the underground chamber in order to mimic an underground burrow which would be a natural egg laying chamber. Are we on the right track?

what is the little window on the front of the box at the lower right? For an additional hint, look at the left-front inside the box.

Any takers?

Mark

By taking a guess and reading the posts you've posted earlier. I would say the window is for one or two things. I would say it is for a camera so you can watch what is going on inside without disturbing the female. My other guess is that it is for some sort of heating/measuring device.

but wrong—sorry (at least you gave some thoughtful tries). Your second guess is closest, but still wrong.

Dare try again? Let me know if you need more clues.

Mark
www.DrSeward.com

I think I need more clues. Is the box in the corner a water chamber that diffuses moisture so that there's a gradient and the gila will deposit the eggs in the preferred moisture. Is the small window a drain or a ventilation hole?

yt
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Jaye- " When you try of all your forces to make your own way, you will help some of others and will be helped by others. As long as you do not make your own way, you cannot help anybody, and nobody can help you. " (Shunryu Suzuki)

Well, I know you like to keep your egg laying box in the 80's and at a certain humidity level. This little window gives you access to control & monitor these two factors. It also helps you direct the female to lay her eggs. Not seeing any additional heat sources made me think this way. So tell us what its for. Some breeders of Heloderma use different approachs then yourself for egg laying boxes so each new version is a learning experience for us all. By the way, will you be at the IHS & Daytona/Venomous Show this year? If so I'll see you there.

Never having breed Gila's only Varanids I will still give this my thought. You have designed this to not only give your female a choice of soil humidity to lay in but also the ability to use this same nest box for incubation allowing the soil to breath and exchange oxygen while still keeping the right moisture levels for the developing eggs. And a good enviroment for the new hatchlings to thrive for the first few days of there lives.
Just my thoughts, not knowing Gila's I may be way off. But it looks like a good idea for Varanids as well! May help with alot of our nesting problems.
Robert

First let me quickly describe the conditions I am wanting for a nest box. The first requirements are appropriate temperature and humidity. I have set up these nest boxes on a steel rack in a small room. I heat the entire room and keep a humidifier running (I tried to heat the individual next boxes, but couldn’t get the stable temps I was looking for).

As far as moisture, I want the same conditions I am looking for during incubation, namely high humidity and low contact moisture. At the bottom of each nest box I have an acrylic try filled with perlite and water. This supplies a large reservoir to constantly supply humidity to the nest box. This reservoir is isolated from the nesting substrate and from the female by a polyester fabric that allows water vapor pass through easily.

So the little window on the front lower right of the box allows me to check the water level in the perlite. In the inside front left is a tube that allows me to add water if needed. I keep about 1 inch of standing water in about 2 inches of perlite. So each nest box can hold a reservoir of around a gallon of water.

This system creates a very stable environment in a small package (12 nesting boxes on a single 4’ rack).

Some of you were right about the dividers. The two narrow chambers are completely filled with substrate (perlite with some peat moss added). The larger chamber on the left is not filled with substrate. The female is placed in the larger empty chamber and she is able to dig a “U” shaped tunnel through the maze to deposit the eggs. Once she lays, she backfills the tunnel she’s created.

I’ve tried various designs over the last few years and this year’s implementation is working great. I will probably only make some minor changes for next season.

Any thoughts?

Mark

www.DrSeward.com

Thats a great accomplishment there DR seward MD. Thanks for sharing with all that wonderful information.

Just curious, as to why you dont try to replicate their natural or normal environment in captivity, instead of keeping them in rubbermaid tubs in a rack? I hope this isn't chicken farm mentality. Producing them doesn't necessarily mean that your enjoying your Gilas for what they are. I've seen Gila groups in captivity, and let me just say you had a few that were lazy bones and lookers while some where actively digging and enjoying themselves.

First, is it impossible to replicate the natural environment of free ranging Gilas in captivity. They are solitary animals with large isolated ranges. To think you could provide in a captive situation the multiple shelters, opportunities for foraging and the myriad of other variables available to free ranging Gilas is a completely fanciful thought.

Second, anyone that is somewhat consistent in propagating a difficult species like Gilas is providing more than just the basic requirements to their animals. Your chicken farm analogy doesn’t apply. You can’t compare the minimal requirements to increase productivity in a domesticated animal to the captive propagation of a wild animal.

The whole answer to successfully breeding Gilas in a consistent and predictable way is in understanding their unique adaptations to their environment and providing those same important environmental cues and opportunities in captivity. After all, there is nothing particularly difficult about reproduction in Gilas—they’ve been doing it quite successfully for many millions of years.

Free ranging Gilas spend most of their lives being “lazy bones” and they never spend any time “actively digging” for the shear enjoyment of it. Anthropomorphizing captive Gilas won’t take one any closer to providing for their needs.

Creating a “naturalistic” setup for Gilas has more to do with the effect on the keeper rather than on the kept.

Cheers,

Mark

I never said to replicate nature, but you can offer them more than a tub thats all. Maybe all there requirements are being met as you said and they're breeding for you, and thats all that matters.
I dont think I'm "Anthropomorphizing" since you clearly stated that they have a large range of land that they move about in and all I'm saying is to give em more room than a rubbermaid drawer. Thanks again for the info.

I feel like I cheated a little, iv been using a similar nest box with 3 or 4 compartment for nearly 2 decades, I use them with monitors and pythons too! and soon uromastyx as well.
Thanks for the fun, most enjoyable!
Rgds

np