Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I obtained a beautiful pair of hatchling Spilotes pullatus from Dean a while ago(so Dean, this is probably for you specifically). They are doing great and are really fascinating creatures. One of the hatchlings holds out for live food but the strange thing is, he simply grabs a live mouse and woofs it down alive w/out ever constricting it. This is a little concerning considering the capability that a mouse has on inflicting a nasty bite. But, there has never been a problem yet. I offered a live mouse to the other tiger and he struck at it and w/in a couple of minutes, the adult mouse was DEAD. Has there been any research on the toxicity of the saliva of this colubrid (hopefully, nothing like a boomslang!)....I found this rather alarming and interesting. Any thoughts out there? Thanks, Rob

You mean the snake struck the mouse, released it and the mouse then died? Thats interesting if so. My spilotes have never constricted really, although they seem to use their body to control prey. I seem to recall others saying they do constrict in some circumstances.

The only time I've ever been bit by spilotes I was surprised at how cleanly their teeth sliced through my flesh, like razors really - but their was no swelling or other indications of envenomation. I've never had one chew one me though, which it would take to get envemomated.
Joe

my tiger rat [from dean] did actually constrict a mouse once but i've never seen that since. he either eats everything alive, always grabbing his quarry by the face or pressing it down against a branch to control it better. as dean told me once, the youngsters will on occasion constrict but as they grow, they no longer feel a need to to so. my adults always just 'face grab' live mice though they are primarily fed f/t medium rats. either/or, they all tend to wolf their food down like they haven't been fed in weeks. i have been bitten by these before [not in a long time] w/ nothing more resulting other than minor lacerations.......

Very interesting observations. In terms of the mouse that died....it died from simply being struck at which is why I posed my original question. They are certainly unlike any other colubrid I have worked with.

I find my Tiger rat, who I got from Dr. Phil about a year ago, often vigourously chews his prekilled food anyway, pauses, and then eats it. I rarely see him "constrict" his food, but given how weak his musculature is, and their relative lack of epaxial muscles (which is why they're so keel-backed, and is the primary muscle for constriction) I always assumed it was more of a coiling-to-hold-food-still rather than constricting-to-kill, much like the wandering garter snakes I used to keep did. They would coil live food, but it wasn't constriction. They also have weakly toxic saliva.

As for venom, I hate getting bitten by my Spilotes (so he does it all the time)
Bites from my guy, even a mild scratch, swell, puff up and itch like mad - much like a bad cat scratch. I e-mailed Wolfgang Wuster once, who I think works with Fry on colubrid venoms, and he said they likely did have some protein in their saliva, and that I was likely sensitive to it.

So I'm not really surprised the mouse died. I've never fed Auryn live food, but I suspect I'd see much the same thing.

Alex

Rob,
For insight into the potential for toxicity and the presence of Colubritoxins and other venom components in Colubrid snakes, contact Bryan Fry. He is currently conducting ongoing research on many different Colubrid species from around the world. I'm not sure if he has done any studies on Tiger Rats specifically yet, but he may have. Here is a link to his website. From there, you can email him directly. He will get back to you.

Venomdoc

Bryan is a nice, down-to-earth guy, very knowledgeable on this subject and willing to help out.

Hi Rob:

As Dan mentioned...I have seen juvies constrict every bit as conpletely as a kingsnake or ratsnake. It seems that they tend to lose this tendincy as they age, and act more "drymarchon-like"

Many colubrids have toxins to varying degrees in their saliva that may not effect humans but effect prey.

I remember a coachwhip that a friend had in his classroom that would bite mice and they would drop dead immediately, as you described with the spilotes.

Someone needs to reaseach this phenomenon more...

I have been bitten many times by Spilotes and have not had any symtoms at all (other than bleeding that is!)

...could be I just have a high tolerance to colubrid bites!

Thanks Dean,

Your little tigers are really wonderful animals; one is fairly easy to work with while the other is always full of piss and vinegar. But, this ornery snake is becoming an integral part of our venomous snake training program. His behaviors closely mimic many arboreal vipers and in many respects, his movements and dimeanor mimic that of the black mamba. He is a great "tool" to teach proper venomous snake handling for the more "wiry" and aggressive arboreal vipers. Glad you have a high tolerance to the bites of this species!

Rob,
Any chance the tiger may have snapped the mouses neck when he struck it? I moved back to wisconsin from Indiana and would like to visit your facility sometime. Great work you're doing there. Ron
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"The Crawl Space"

No, it was just a mild defensive type of strike; not one meant for dispatching its prey...who knows. Drop me a line when you want to come for a visit. Take care, Rob