Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have seen people do this, and read alot about it.. and i think i am ready to give it a try..

Does anyone know of a good "object" to use as a probe? The ones i've seen come in expensive sets, and i am curious if anyone else has used other simliar objects, perhpas obtained from the drug store, etc..

I do not want to hurt the snake, and realise a ball-point tip is probbly the way to go,

any suggestions are welcome

thanks
ak

The best thing to use for a probe is a probe. Probe sets with ball tips can be had for less that $30.00. Probes that were made for that purpose are manufactured so that there are no burrs or rough or sharp edges, and they are manufactured to the correct sizes. That's not to say you can't make your own, my first probe set was given to me by Thomas Yarbrough about 25 years ago and were made from old surgical stainless dental tools. They didn't have ball-tips, but were finely machined so as not to cause injury to the snake.

Technique is al-important in probing snakes. Judjing from your screen name, I would think that you have an interest in Crotalid snakes. Some of them, particularly some Rattlesnakes, require a slightly different probing technique because of their physiology. I would suggest getting someone that is proficient with probing to show the the "ropes". It's relatively easy, especially with taper-end probes to inadvertently turn a female into a male....

thanks for the advice oldherper, you always seem to know whats up..

it would be my first attempt, and i am VERY scared of hurting the snakes..

i am attempting this on my northern copperheads, and have seen it done on a python..

i dont know anyone around here who keeps copperheads, so im not sure where to go..

perhaps you know of some highly particular reading material?

thanks
AK

Here's a link:

www.egeckos.com/probing.html

If you are going to be probing venomous snakes, get some tubes and learn how to use them.

thanks oldherper..

i have actually been reviewing that exact page and a few others, plus some related chapters in 2 diferent books for the past few days

and i have tubes as well..

i made a nice smooth, rounded probe out of a tool i got at the hardware store, putting the ky jelly on right now..

wish me luck!

AK

OK... so heres my dilema..

Out of the 4 biggest copperheads (3 to 3 &1/2 footers), the 2 biggest turned out to be males... they had slightly longer tails which were "skinnier", particularly the biggest one. The second largest (also a male) was slighlty thicker at the tail base, and not as long looking tail-wise..

but with both of these large guys... the probe slid right down into the tail... atleast 10 scales or so.. with ease..

I thought the females were usually larger in this species, tho.. does this sound like maybe i busted through there hemipenes? I am surprised the two biggest turned out male, not because of how the tail looked.. but because i thought females were typically longer/bigger ..

The 3rd and 4th largest appeared to be females. The probe would not go in deep at all, maybe 3 scales at most...

The 4th largest looks gravid to me, very fat near her short tail, the one thats slightly bigger (3rd largest) looked confusing from the outside, similar to the second largest male snake... but i probed it twice, and only a few scales deep it went..

im hoping i did this right..

Out of the 3 smaller copperheads (2 to 2 & 1/2 footers)... the two larger ones look like females, and i could barely get the probe to go in. Perhaps the probe is too thick for the smaller ones? can this happen? The probe wouldn't go deeper than 1 or 2 scales..

The smallest of the 3 smaller ones looks male to me, but he is pretty small, and i couldn't get the probe to go deeper than 1 scale.. so i am confused as to if perhaps a too-large probe size will just make the whole thing null and void..

i read that using a bigger probe is better than a smaller one.. but i just have this feeling like maybe i "missed the hole" due to and oversized probe....

the measurement of my home-made probe is 1 & 1/8 millimeters (at most), but below is a picture i scanned of the probe to finger ratio... to give an idea of its size. This is close to realistic size (unless ks.com resizes pics)

anyone who understood anything i just said, and cares to respond... your imput is highly valued

thanks
AK

It sounds like you are off to a good start. It takes practice...some are going to be more difficult than others...some are going to be a little ambiguous.

The probe you are using doesn't look to be too big for a 2 1/2 foot Copperhead, but it's sort of hard to tell from that photo. The tip should be rounded and smooth...I couldn't really tell about that from the picture.

In general, females will probe 3 to 5 subcaudals, males 8 to 12. It varies from species to species. Usually though, if you get a reading of 2 subcaudals or less, it is a problem with the probing. Also, sometimes individual females will probe a little deeper than normal and sometimes individual males will probe a little shallower than normal. But remember that some species have bigger subcaudal scales. There are guidelines around that list different species and how deep each should normally probe. Also, sperm plugs can be a problem in males sometimes, causing them to probe like a female. Australian pythons can be really tricky at times. With Crotalid snakes, if you have a problem getting the probe to go in, try first inserting the tip under the anal plate with the probe pointed to the front end of the snake, turn it straight up and push it down a little, then toward the tail and insert it. Some of them have a sort of a cleft there that makes it tricky to get the probe in.

Sometimes with immature snakes, probing is just not 100% reliable.

..again oldherper, you seem to be the local expert here..

the probe had been filed down, and "smoothed" with a file, i know it looks rough from the scan, but its actually quite rounded

eventually ...i will be purchaseing professional ball point probes when i get some extra money, and retry this process..

i will be sure to update (probbly with some more questions.. hahahah)

thanks for your help
AK