Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Dear All:
I have been out driving the roads north of Brackettville three nights in a row from sundown (8:45) till about midnight, and I have yet to see one snake. I cruise at about 25 miles per hour with my high beams on, and when I get to a good outcroping of rocks I get out and walk with a cordless spotlight, and the only thing I have come across are tarantualas and one mountain lion (very cool and unexpected, and yes, I was in my car.) What am I doing wrong? The temps have been between 88 and 78, barometer two nights ago was 29.68. The moon has been full, however. I thought I would atleast see a rat snake or something??? Any pointers? Any words of encouragement?
Thanks,
Eliot Stone
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1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boas
and always looking for more!

Just keep looking, it takes time.

Good luck and keep your chin up, perseverance pays off in the end (usually, LOL).

Brad

FINDING ALTERNA IS LUCK AND TIMING. EVERY ONE YOU FIND YOU'LL THINK "IF I HADN'T STOPPED TO TAKE A LEAK, I WOULD NEVER HAVE FOUND THIS SNAKE!"..IT'S KINDA WEIRD BUT THATS THE WAY IT IS. I DROVE DOWN FOR 3 YRS SEVRAL TIMES A YEAR BEFORE I FOUND MY FIRST ONE...IT'S A MAGICAL FEELING AND PATIENCE IS THEY KEY BRO. KEEP ON CRUISIN. I'LL BE DOWN ON THE 12TH TO LOOK AROUND LOMA AND LANGTRY FOR ALTERNA AND LEPS..SEE YOU GUYS THERE.

I'll be out around that area then. I'll be driving a black ranger. cam p. san antonio

If anything you could stay out later, many times the Alterna is the only snake you will see. And many times you will not see animals until 2:00 or 3:00 AM. If you can stay up and alert later than Midnight then hunt later.

I think there is a collecting bias to find them before Midnight. Most people have either turned back in for the night or are less alert after that when they collect.

More time spent trying only increases your odds of finding one.

Good luck

LOL, Elliot, we've all been there. Give me a call if you wanna lookin. BTW, have you been looking up when you go out and noticed that big bright moon? There have been alterna found on bright nights but snake numbers (for me and ALOT of others) are few and far in between when it's bright out.
Jason
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Take note of when the moon is up and which side is on. If there is a good cut that is in the shadow from the moon that is a good place to focus on. Or you can just be sure to be out after the moon sets.

Lance, I've always had crap luck on bright moons with the exception of Ft. Davis, Boy Scout Rd. Etc., like you said, in the dark areas. I've actually found things pretty good on the upper end of Boy Scout Rd. and some spots in Limpia on bright nights but many parts of Boy Scout hardly ever see much moon light. Everywhere else, River Rd, Black Gap, Sanderson, Hudspeth Co., Culberson Co., 277 seem to always produce little if anything on full moons even in the shadows and even worse w/road cruising, for me that is. Since I move to Uvalde, a couple of years ago, I've noticed the same thing around here as well.
Just my opinion; so I guess that makes snake hunting a little like fishing...fish all day with no bites and when you're ready to go home, BAM! wall hanger.
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Wallhanger indeed!! How true what you said... Last years light phase Juno male was the only snake seen for the whole night... 3:35,,,

This years was one of two snakes seen ALL night (the other an annulata: not a bad duo however).

Patience and persistence like everyone says. Be particularly careful when you get bleery cross-eyed and start paying attention to scorpions, mammals, flying dust and anything else that peeks your interest. This is when they always seem to appear!!!!

Yea You Schmuck, you and James cruise out for a few days and pick up an alterna and an annulata on the same night. People will start to follow you to see where you are hunting. Cheers, can't wait to do it again.

Later Rick

Schmuck?!?! Ouch. The pain, the hurt, the anguish....

Anyone who follows James and I better not follow too closely, and they will get bored quick as we are so anal about running that same ol stretch around the crossing.... It has always treated us well. Good luck this next hunt. We'll be sitting here in AZ thinking about TX and all the beauties there. And we'll be thinking about some of the snakes too!!!

That is a fact. I saw an alterna at sunset on the night of the full moon and was so pi$@# that I missed it,I stayed out until 11:30 and didn't see another snake. I started home and saw another one at 11:45 on my way home. Got that one. Alterna crawl when they crawl, if you aren't there you aren't gonna catch them. Hang in there.
Later Rick

You are doing just fine, except you just haven't seen anything yet. These other posts are right on. Keep it up and stay out later if you safely can, The moon doesn't really matter in my experience; wind is worse, but they'll crawl then too (my son and I got one a few weeks back on a very windy night).

Patience, luck and most importantly, a snake right in front of you will get you your prize!! Good luck.

when there wasn't at leats a 5 mile hour wind?
Boas like it as well.
Anyways,All things considered just keep trying and you will find one.Took me three years and 40 nights to find my first alterna (4:30 a.m)very windy (15-20 mph)and I was walking a cut.

p.s. the one I found at 4:30 a.m walking is in her egg box as we speak.

Later shannon brown

That is the difference in the eastern and western populations of alterna. I have collected over 50 in brewster and presidio co. and the only ones I collected in windy conditions were just before a storm. I saw 11 on Juno Rd. in 1983 and most of them were with a slight breez.

The one that pissed me off was the 47" alterna morph
4 miles north of bakers. You and I were the only ones
on the road all night save the tire testicles.
(maybe it got bigger as the years went by).

I still think about that snake.

When you going back out?

best
Joe

I don't remember it being that big but they say everything shrinks with age, or is it everything grows with age, I don't remember, anyway that was 21 years ago, it was a cool snake wasn't it. I will be somewhere west of I35 about the 13th thru the 20th. Are you going and when?

I'm trying to cook something up. I need to visit my south
Brewster county property.

Best
Joe

I was considering burning a tank of gas up that very road TONIGHT! And I was going to do the same as you by walking/spotlighting the cuts. I know that is on the very eastern fringe of alterna habitat...but it sure seems like good habitat judging by topo and satellite images. I went to Kickapoo Caverns once so I am familar with the area somewhat. I live in Castroville. My wife will kill me if I come home at 3 am on a weeknight though! I had a dream last night that I caught an alterna and have been obsessing all day with my Texas Atlas and terraserver...

it is a fairly quiet road, not much traffic. If you catch one, i will be thouroughly upset.!!!
Eliot STone
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1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boas
and always looking for more!

No alterna. The atrox was found under an owl that flew off as I approached, on 334 N/E of Brackettville. I guess he was grateful as he didn't attempt to strike and barely made a buzz when I pinned him down. The emoryi rat was found in the middle of 674 about midnight. Saw nothing spotlighting cuts, or the rest of the night besides 1 DOR coachwhip. Almost caught a whipoorwill (or nightjar, nighthawk?) though! Did you notice all those little toads hopping near the section of 674 on the biggest hill, past the cattle guards where all the sheep where? Red Spotted toads. That was a really cool spot, with the river to one side, ledge on the other and all the outlines of the surrounding hills. Got home at 3:30 am. Wife was pissed as expected.

second pic of emoryi...nice specimen huh?

Here's the atrox. I had to kick my collard lizard out of his spacious 55 gallon desert tank...

I would have been grateful to find just a DOR coachwhip!! Not fair man, I guess I need to stay out later or something. Good job on the emoryi, I love those things. Next time you head out on 674 let me know, I live in Brackett, so I could meet you up there.
eliot stone
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1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1 Suriname Red Tailed Boas
and always looking for more!

It is a few miles south/east of Bracketville. There appears to be a road that goes through this little "mountain" range. Slight chance of an isolated alterna colony out there? More likely lots of rattlers and rats but maybe hognose or annulata? I'm just going by sattelite images from terraserver.com. Looks remote and inviting (well to snakes...and me). If you feel like it you might check and see if that road I'm talking about is private or not. Looks to be about 15 miles east on 90, then right on 1572, then 1 mile later take a left over the RR tracks and that is the road in question. Here is link to aerial photo, see that road that goes south/west through the canyon, in the bottom right quarter or the screen?

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=119&y=1009&z=14&w=2

>Slight chance of an isolated alterna colony out there?
>More likely lots of rattlers and rats but maybe hognose
>or annulata?

You'll never know what's there until you go look.
A lot of folks probably didn't expect a new species
of Typhlomolge from the most surveyed spring in central
Texas, yet one turned up in 2003.

The road you linked to is probably not the best bet for an alterna, and more like you said Rattlers, annulata, or hogs,
but I'd like to get access to that Mtn. range and see what turns up.

Best
Joe

Typhlomolge. Had to look that one up. Didn't know a new species of blind salamander was found last year. I'm off to discover the rare and elusive Anacacho Caliche Spotted Mudpuppy!

Walk more and concentrate on one area.
I suggest either exactly 29 miles north of
Bracketville (Huge cut) or 11 miles north
(good rip rap on the edge of the road).

If you want to find alterna you need the boring
approach of repetitive hunting. Go over the same area
(the two I just gave you are good) again and again.
Just remember that persistance and patience will pay
off eventually.

Alterna densities are not as high on 674 as they
would be on 277 or Juno so you will need to work harder.
Just keep visualising in your mind that snake crawling
on the shoulder, and keep doing what you are doing, except
walking more, and covering the same area over and over.
That recipe will pay off eventually.

Best
Joe

I am by no means an expert, but I will say this... So many folks travel to West Texas with the sole intention of bagging a Greyband. If that is the case, than more times than not you will leave disappointed. However, if you enjoy the area for what it is worth, you have a much better time. I like being in the desert. I like the scenery, and the vast array of reptiles that is available in the area. I enjoy getting out of the house and the peace and quiet.

The area your hunting in is probably one of the more or most difficult areas to collect an alterna. This could be one reason you are having a hard time. Like Joe Forks said, if you concentrate in one area you have a better chance of seeing something. This takes patience... I myself have a hard time sitting in one area for many nights in a row. So that is why you find me cruising a bunch. I find less, but I still have a good time. Remember if you drive slow, you see more but cover less ground. If you drive fast, you cover more road but see less of it. To drive fast you have to have really good lights and brakes...It is up to you to find what works best for you.
I wish you the best of luck. The first year is a tough one. I have mentioned this before but sometimes I think the road has a Rhythm to it. If you find that Rhythm, you can see lots of animals. Also keep this in mind, if it's hotter, sleep later, hunt later (until the sun comes up). If it's cooler start earlier and quit earlier. Myself I tend to get tired lately and find myself turning in at 2:00 am or so. That is a mistake on my part because I have seen an alterna at 3:30 am. Some have seen them at dawn.

So last but not least, I say find what works for you, and have a good time. Enjoy the area, and be careful.

Good luck,

Steven O