Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok, i have 2 argus monitors, about a year and 4 months old. they are from the same clutch and have been separate for about 6 months due to their inability to get along. well every once in a while i let them both out at the same time, and usually that results in some hissing and a little wrestling. well, i have been curious as to what sexes they were (i'm sure you know where this is going) i was hoping the bigger of the two was male. well to my surprise their last wrestling match ended up in some serious pipe laying, on the part of the smaller of the two. my question is, is this incestuous display of comedy normal? aren't they still too young? neither one is bigger than 2 feet. and to make matters worse, due to the smaller one breaking his cage, they are now living together in sin until repairs can be made. i mean its going on all day, don't they get tired!? please can anyone shed some light on the situation, or should i run the talk show gauntlet. jerry, jerry, jerry, jerry...

Its well known these days that this, "laying pipe", you speak of, is commonplace. Its not about reproductive sex, but more about, get the heck off my show. Kind of a rape deal, or a humiliation type of thing. I will do anything to make you leave, you know, book, get outa here.

Funny part is, all sexes all ages, in all combos, and different species, do this, from the day they hatch. Aren't monitors cool. Well almost as cool as turtles and torts, they even, "lay pipe", to rocks, water bowls, and other non-living items. Cheers FR

Many other animals to that list. female dogs when in heat will find a nice pillow, or if two females well the other will mount the one in heat.

You also can see the same thing in various other animals, even my fish in my fish tank.

I also have snakes that have done this.

No one said other animals didn't. In fact, I learned that in the early seventies from snakes. With snakes, females will breed other cycled females if no male is present.

With monitors, females will breed cycled females for the same reason or if the male, for some reason, does not breed the female.

When we see a female breeding another female in a group, it tells me the male is toast and time for a new male.

The above is not to be confused with the mounting for rape, etc. type thing. Goodness monitors are complicated. FR

I take it impotence is common in monitors, then? (But they have TWO penes!) Ah well, I guess they just wear it out..
Is there any ballpark age the males start to become 'toast'? I'm forever wondering how old my male might be...
D.

As others have mentioned, monitors will often go through the mating motions without anything reproductive actually going on. As for it being too early, I've had arguses sexually mature (laying eggs) at about 9 months and have heard of arguses laying eggs as early as 6 months. Of course, at a year and 4 months, mine have all been at pretty near their adult size so yours may be maturing slower than if under optimal conditions.

Best of luck sorting things out

Luke