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Pending Draft Legislation Targeted for Spring 2005
The Draft will Start in June 2005

There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on this is needed immediately.

$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.

The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.

College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

Even those voters who currently support US actions abroad may still object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference, but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft.

The public has a right to air their opinions about such an important decision.

Please send this on to all the friends, parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, and cousins that you know. Let your children know too -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change!

Please also contact your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and contact newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.

While I do favor a draft, I would rather see it implimented from a "public mandate" rather than a congressional one. It should be voted on ...if only to give it credibility.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Isn't it funny how democrats complain that only the poor teenage minorities get drafted, or killed in combat, and now they are complaining because this legislation may make it harder for the "rich, white" kids to get out of it by going to college, etc.? More hypocrisy, but hypocrisy is irrelevant if you are against something I guess.-LOL

(Not that their claims are true or anything. We know, for instance, that more whites were killed in Vietnam than blacks, that those fighting in Iraq are volunteers and many of them are not kids, and some are very well off,etc.)

Rodney

>>Isn't it funny how democrats complain that only the poor teenage minorities get drafted, or killed in combat..

Well they would make up the bulk.

>>and now they are complaining because this legislation may make it harder for the "rich, white" kids to get out of it by going to college, etc.?

Where do you see this? I didnt see any one complaining, but I can bet you, that Bush's daughters wont be part of that draft..

>>More hypocrisy, but hypocrisy is irrelevant if you are against something I guess.-LOL

You more than anyone live by that Rodney

>>We know, for instance, that more whites were killed in Vietnam than blacks,

Ok and what was the population % of blacks, to whites in the 60's?

>>that those fighting in Iraq are volunteers and many of them are not kids, and some are very well off,etc.)

Most only joined for education purposes. Its a well know FACT Rodney, that our military mainly targets, low income people of all ages and races, peddling the benefits of education, and jobs, to those that have very little.

Bottom line, If they do reinstate the draft, you can have my place Rodney. Since you seem so Gung-ho.

~SoBeK~

Myth: A disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.

Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be," said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia - a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war." [All That We Can Be]

And, today, it is well known that a much higher percentage of Blacks serve in areas other than combat, so they are underrepresented today, in combat areas and fatalities. The highest number of blacks (percentage wise) in the military today serve in the food and transport areas. It is mostly the whites (a higher percentage than they occupy in the military population) that serve and die in combat areas.

I believe the military puts people where they can, when possible, to be the most effective. Maybe there is a lot of lifting in the food/transport areas, and a higher percentage of blacks are stronger than whites, so more of them end up there? Maybe whites are better at combat, shooting skills? Who knows? Certain races are better at some things than some others, even though individuals within a certain race can vary widely in specific talents.

Not that these percentages matter to me, but a myth is a myth, and it sould be put to rest.

Rodney

I dont know how this fliped to how many black people where killed in NAm.

Again I must ask,

Are you going to take my place when the draft comes Rodney?

Sure, I love my country and would willingly serve if asked. And considering how much better my life has been, living in the US, than it would have been living almost anywhere else, I would serve out of gratitude. We Americans experience a better quality of life, in just 10 years, than many around the world experience in their whole lives. Unfortunately, being 42 and having bad knees, they probably wouldn't want me.

Rodney

>>Maybe there is a lot of lifting in the food/transport areas, and a higher percentage of blacks are stronger than whites, so more of them end up there? Maybe whites are better at combat, shooting skills? Who knows?

WTF are you talking about Rodney?

you make the Military sound like a plantation Rodney!

Don't forget your white robe, and hood Rodney..!

a very telling post!

~SoBeK~

Oh the joys of a politically correct posting....or Not?

I'll argue against black men being stronger In all modesty they used to call me a work THE HUMAN FORKLIFT(yea team). You see a lot more white power lifters. But black men do make superior bodybuilders (damn good genetics).

Political correctness is idiocy. There is no such thing as equality. And artificially maintaining the illustion is just creative lying.

But, as I munch my favorite (peanut butter sandwich) I point out that there are always individuals that excell. it is not as simple as being a matter of race.

Which is what I like about the draft. Without it, We kill off our brightest and best in wars while the rest stay home and reproduce. (Note I said Brightest and Best....Not richest...money does not make for better genetics).

A draft does level the general playing field. And cutting out the college and Canada options will insure that we don't have the unfairness that we had in the Nam era.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Which is what I like about the draft. Without it, We kill off our brightest and best in wars while the rest stay home and reproduce. (Note I said Brightest and Best....Not richest...money does not make for better genetics).

I couldn't agree more.

I'll argue against black men being stronger In all modesty they used to call me a work THE HUMAN FORKLIFT(yea team). You see a lot more white power lifters. But black men do make superior bodybuilders (damn good genetics)

Couldn't disagree more. Why? Because you answered it with one of your other statements.

I point out that there are always individuals that excell. it is not as simple as being a matter of race.

Exactly! If 60% of blacks are stronger than the general population, and 40% of whites are stronger than the general population, blacks are a stronger race on average. Because of this, you would expect them, on average, to occupy different positions within the military. Some might call this racist, but I call it smart. It's good to exploit peoples strengths. I wouldn't put a computer expert, of any race, in any position other than working with computers--if possible. I also wouldn't put someone very strong anywhere other than in a position that requires strength--if possible. If this results in a certain race being over-represented in a certain job, so be it.

On average, certain races are larger and certain races are smaller---or stronger/weaker, faster/slower, etc. Larger races would be better for lifting/strength, because the item they are lifting is a smaller percentage of their weight. This doesn't mean that every individual within a race will always be larger or stronger than every individual within another race.

You use power lifters as an example. This could easily just be a cultural difference--a sport that certain races don't like. If, in general, blacks don't try to compete in this sport, there won't be any, or very few, black champions in lifting. How do you explain all the African American foot ball players, for instance? If you use this example, instead of power lifting, the percentages clearly don't reflect the percentage of the general population.

(and let me correct a previous post. I meant to state that Blacks were underrepresented in combat in the gulf war, and the war on Iraq. They were about the same percentage of casualties, as the general population, in Vietnam.)

Rodney

I have spent most of my life in gyms. I competed as a power lifter (minor leauge) but I followed the sport and body building.

In the several gyms that I have worked out in, the minority of people there have been black (even in black neighborhoods). A good example, Mike Ashley's(a former (black)world class body builder) is in heavily black Pompano. We have maybe three out of about fifteen members who are serious lifters and one of those is another body builder who never touches really heavy weight.

In those places where compeditive Power lifters train-few are black.

What you find the largest percentage of black men doing is Body Building...a very different sport.

Black football players are as much there for their superior speed than anything else. it is an unusual thing to find the combination of size and speed that you find (more often)in black men.

But when you are talking pure bull strength, the majority is clearly white. It is our gift. Note that even in (pre-fire arm) warfare, the white race valued strength more than speed in their warriors, which is why the white nations evolved knights in heavy armour vs lightly armed African and Asian warriors.

Buck Henry; who calls himself "the worlds strongest man"of the WWE)is a rarity. The winner for example in the Worlds strongest Man competition is almost always white.

So I can't go with your arguement. Esecially since there would be more strong white men if our culture wasn't so white collar. This is a question of genetics rather than culture.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Besides that...Having been in the military and in a position of minor commanding rank. The military pays no attention to who is strong or weak. They Do pay attention to those that are most motivated. Those men are promoted.

A classic example was Audey Murphy. Considered undersized, he managed in a combat battalion to rise from a dogface straight up to lieutenant and was the most decorated soldier in WW2.

You theory in Nam just does not play the way the military does things....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

It's not my theory on Nam... It is a compilation of statistics that proves that blacks weren't uses as "cannon fodder" as some claim.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, if a few racist commanders ordered blacks to go on some of the more dangerous missions than they did whites, but their casualty rate was no different from the casualty rate of whites. This argument is made all the time by left wing liberals, particularly black leaders like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, (that the poor/minorities) are over-represented in the military, and they are killed in much larger numbers than whites. It is not true.

But in Iraq, the statistics show that far more whites were killed, than blacks, in combat. It is also known that far more blacks serve in the food/transport services than in combat areas. (again, percentage wise)

Maybe, in Iraq, it is because Blacks ask to not be involved in combat because they tend to be a higher percentage of Muslims and they don't want to fire on Muslims? I don't know the reason, but that isn't the point. The point is, this simply isn't true, regardless of what the reason is.

Rodney

I think we are talking apples and oranges again.

I agree that there will be more white "power lifters", just because blacks are a minority. That is why you must look at percentages and not numbers. (Also, it is not just pure strength, but there is also a stamina part to the equation.)

For instance, if you randomly took 100 whites and 100 blacks off the street, and measured their lifting ability, I think you would get more blacks passing the test than you would whites.

Sure, there are a few "Erkles" in the world, but on average, I think you will find a higher percentage of white weaklings in the general population, than you will find black weaklings.

Since we are talking about percentages of those that serve in the military, we must also talk about percentages of those that can lift more. I don't think you are right, but it could be!

Rodney

I was talking about this today with a couple of black body builders, and some other "seasoned" gym types and they heartly agreed with my statement. They also knew of few (if any) black powerlifters. Not a scientific poll (true) but with my 30 years as a Gym rat, competitive powerlifter and body building student my time as a certified Personal trainer, I think I qualify to give an educated (acurate)opinion on this.

Question: Have you ever been involved in strength sports, body building or been a gym (not fitness club) member?

It's like I said...Pure strength is our gift. Just as superior speed seems to be predominent in black atheletes. There are exceptions on both sides but the clear majority decides the issue.

If I were to speculate...it is more common in black men to be longer boned and leaner than it is with whites. This would place them at a disadvantage in strength competition. I know this because I am a tall white male who used to weigh in at 180. Heavy weight training pushed my size up to 250lbs on a 6"4" frame with 19.5" arms. I lost consistently to shorter stocky white men.

Actually...if you were to use your statistics to measure this, I think you would find that while blacks seriously outnumber whites in Football and track (at the highest levels), whites rule in strength sports percentage wise...

Frank

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I did do just a little body building when I was in high-school/college--but nothing major. People were always amazed at how much I could curl. I was only 135lb at the time, but I could curl 155lbs for 20 reps. with multiple sets. I should start lifting again, instead of answering all these posts!-LOL.

I do know what you mean, from watching the Olympics, however. Power lifters are almost always white. Especially Russians and Europeans. It has always amazed me how "out of shape" they appear. We used to joke that they got those "beer bellies", and their lifting strength from lifting lots of kegs of beer. I can't think of any other event where the athletes don't look like athletes! (except for curling (the ice sport/not lifting!) maybe--they look like janitors sweeping a hallway! That has to be the strangest sport ever invented.)

You could very well be right about this, and my perception could be wrong, but it still seems to me that blacks are generally larger than whites and more likely better "movers" because of this larger size. I have had numerous black friends that were larger than me, and far fewer white friends that this would apply to. But again, maybe that's just coincidence, and maybe this size advantage isn't really an advantage at all.

Rodney

That's a good lift Rodney......Now off thy Butt sluggart and back to the Gym!!!!! (lol)

Hey...I'm 52 with a repaired broken back...and I don't miss workouts.

My best lift: dips with my legs resting on a second bench. 600lbs stacked on my lap for ten reps.

Powerlifters never look as good as body builders. Someone once asked, "Do you want to bench 800lbs...or look like you can bench 800lbs?"

And yes...Northern European bloodlines do tend to dominate in power events.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

you make the statement Ok and what was the population % of blacks, to whites in the 60's

I answer it, putting it into perspective (percentage of the population, percentage of the military, and percentage of casualties) and now you don't know what I am talking about?

What's racist about certain races being better at some things than others? Do you think that Japanese are the same body size, on average, as Caucasians? They are not. That's not racist, just honest. Guess what, I think women are prettier than men! Guess that makes me sexist too!

Oh well,
Rodney

That was incredible rodney. If you had even a tiny bit of credibility left its gone now. I didn't know you were such an ignorant racist.

Since when is stating a fact racism? What did I say that was racist?

To me, racism is stating something that is not true about a race, or something that is derogatory about a race, or something that is not true and derogatory at the same time. What have I said that is either derogatory, or not true?

What I find incredulous, is people that try to argue that all races are exactly the same, that some races aren't slightly better adapted for certain tasks, based on their bodies which is based on the conditions where they evolved. That being able to see a difference between races, is itself, racist. (By the way, I love the variety of races we have in the US. How boring would it be if everyone you saw looked like you do!)

(since this is a snake forum, would you rule out having a black-headed python and only have woma? I wouldn't! I love them both. Can't you see they have many similarities, but also that they have differences? So what if they are basically the same snake except for size and color? Can you not appreciate that the black headed python evolved a black head to thermoregulate in a cooler weather, or that it could heat it's body better (when just exposing its head) than a woma could by just exposing it's head? Does this make the woma inferior? Nope! Using your logic, if you can see this evolutionary advantage, and you can see the color difference between these two snakes, you must be a racist!)

If I said that, percentage wise, Scandinavians are more likely to have blue eyes than Asians, is that racist? Or is it just stating a physical fact? Or, if I said a higher percentage of African Americans have black hair than Europeans? Since when is describing a race's characteristics being racist?

If you see an Indian walking down the sidewalk, do you think he is Asian? Why not? Are you a racist because you can see the characteristics that are present in that person, that either identifies his race, or narrows it down to a couple of countries, or excludes them from another race? I think not.

If you see a blonde person commit a crime, and you tell the police that they were blonde, does that mean you are a racist and hate people of European dissent? I don't think so. You are just describing a characteristic of that person.

If I offended anyone, I apologize. But in the spirit of debate, can you please tell me what I said that was racist? I can't see it.

It's amazing how "racism" is often confused with stating "facts". I won't lie about something just so I can be politically correct. I won't overlook something for the same reason. That is how you loose credibility!--Another reason I will never be a democrat, I just can't lie in order to be politically acceptable, it just isn't in me.

Rodney

Political Correctnes is one of the most damaging concepts in recent years!

There are definite differences. I have a black friend at the gym who I wish I had his genetic's for bodybuilding. I am a lot stronger, but I will never look as good.

The biggest damage PC does is it makes us ignore real racial and cultural problems which results in curtailing special programs to help people based on their real needs and limitations.

You are right Rodney...we are not the same and making it racist to admit that, is just a different form of prejudice.

Frank

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Rodney sayz "I believe the military puts people where they can, when possible, to be the most effective. Maybe there is a lot of lifting in the food/transport areas, and a higher percentage of blacks are stronger than whites, so more of them end up there? Maybe whites are better at combat, shooting skills? Who knows?"

Your saying the military is thinking that blacks are better "lifters' than whites and whites are better "at combat and shooting skills" - one is better at heavy lifting, one is better at brave and intellectual skills. What a racist you are.

Of course, then you throw in a bunch of question marks, which many intellectual cowards to to compensate for their intelectual dishonesty.

But your saying that the military pushes blacks into meanial tasks because thats what they're good at. Pretty sad rodney. Your a perfect example of why we still need affermative action - your the racists hidden in amoung us.

You thinking is off-track rodney - you have no credibility left at all.

Your saying the military is thinking that blacks are better "lifters' than whites and whites are better "at combat and shooting skills" - one is better at heavy lifting, one is better at brave and intellectual skills. What a racist you are.

No, that is not at all what I am saying. I am saying that blacks are under-represented in combat areas today, this is a fact, and there is most likely a very good reason for this. I am not sure what the reason is, just that this could be a possible reason. A slightly higher number of blacks, or whites could be doing a certain job, because that race could be slightly better at it. For instance when doing (insert you job choice here), whites might have 55% of their population that is good at this job, while only 45% of blacks are good at it. On the other hand, (insert another/different job here) whites might have only 45% of their population that is good at this job, while 55% of blacks are good at it. So, an intelligent person would assign more whites/blacks to certain jobs because a larger percentage of them are good at that job. This assigning would be done based on their performance, so certain jobs would naturally have a race bias, since that race has a particular job performance bias. They are all serving their country, so what they are doing is really irrelevant to me, but to say that "blacks are used as cannon fodder" is both false, and very racist, so it sould not be said! (If it was true, that would be another matter all together!)

Let me ask you a question. If you were a commander, and you had someone under you that excelled in mathematics/computers, and someone else that excelled in target practice, would you make the mathematics/computer expert a sniper and the person who excelled in target practice a computer programmer or computer operator? I sure hope not! That isn't how you build the best fighting force in the world.

Now let me ask you another question. Don't you think that certain races are slightly better at certain tasks (on average) than other races? Regardless of whether this "gift" they have is due to cultural, or "body type/genetic", differences.

In my opinion, not letting people work in areas where they excel, just because of their race, is really what racism is all about. I don't see how letting (or assigning) people to do the particular job they are best at, regardless of their race, is racism.

Rodney

Once again the Politically Correct "bar" is set in place. Rodney is not being racist by exploring physical differences. What is racist is this silly denial that races have differences.

We are not alike. Each race has it's blessings and it's curses. To deny this is so, is plain stupid. It is not racist to speculate on this.

For example, As I said earlier, one of my favorite foods was created by a Black scientist: George Washington Carver.

My Black body building friends have me beat for the genetics in the sport (except for calves which are a weakness of the race. Some of the top Black body builders have calf implants...Flex Wheeler for example).

Anyhow, a large percentage of "White men in America and Europe are part Black. You have to go to Africa to see pure "Black" racial types. It kind of muddies the issue don't you think?

True equality is when you can see and aknowledge that we are different-without it being an excuse to belittle others.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

d
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 tiger crested gecko (peachs)
0.1 Red blood python (Rhianon)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

My image Gallery

Artificial "equality" is definitly racist.

As enacted; Affirmative Action is Racially Biased, as it eliminates personal merit in favor of Race quotas.

Speaking of Racial profiling....The "Son of Sam" who was one nasty serial killer was caught partly because the police noticed a traffic ticket on a Jewish man's car that was parked in an Italian (New York) neighborhood. Racist...Yes. But sometimes noticing differences can save lives.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

He's just MIS-INFORMED. Muahahahahahahahahahahaahyahahahahahahaah!!
Now THAT was a good joke.

Speaking as somebody that is verifiably black(50%) I can say that it sure sounds racist, smells racist and reeks of racism...but then we could be wrong...couldnt we..? Muahahahahahahahahahah

Fredrick Albury

Not that I am an advocate of Rodney on this issue, but How do you discuss (on a practical level) the advantages and disadvantages that each race has without sounding racist?

We are not alike. The law and political correctness will not make us so. Am I offended that black men look great on a posing stage in bodybuilding contests...while my pale skin and less than perfect genetics make me look out of shape?

Do I stop loving Peanut Butter and all the great inventions and discoveries the Black or Yellow race have contributed because of Race?

Let's be real. There are differences (pro and con) in each race that are obvious. To not talk about such things is in it's own right just as racist as giving special favors to one or the other.

It is a denial of what we are.

What IS racist is when we artificially level a playing field so the best cannot perform to their potential. When a student cannot go to a major college or a gifted researcher looses his/her job so a racial quota can be filled by a person of less talent (but of the correct race)that is racism. That is like making Mike Tyson fight with one hand tied behind his back, or requiring a slew of NFL running backs to play on one leg.

Pollitical Correctness is a curse. At least Rodney is saying something in an attempt to understand how things work.

I can't put Rodney down for speculation. He is not coming from racism...just an impersonal intelectualism. That can seem offensive but it is better than all the fool's that run around afraid to say that we are each unique, each with our gifts and our curses.....That's what we are...and the sooner everyone gets comfortable with it then the sooner we will end racism.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

young men out providing the freedoms you have come to take for granted. 2005 can't come soon enough. It does give many of you time to find a socialist country to practice your well deserved liberal freedom in.

OK...I'm sure who this last post is for....Personaly I am not young...liberal...and unlike most who post here...I served this country to protect all our freedoms.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."